Hi everyone,
I want to get into amp building, never touched a soldering iron in my life, know virtually nothing about electricity/electronics. Those are the negatives.
The positives: I'm generally a quick learner and assimilating theory is not an issue. Also, I've got time and budget available.
I'd like to build a dedicated (speaker) amp for my HE-6 headphone. As most of you will know these are power hungry beasts. From what i've learned the 'ideal' combo seems to be with a low-gain, not über powerful speaker amp. From the research I've done it seems like the FirstWatt clones are generally excellent candidates.
Now my 2 questions: a) do you agree that these amps indeed will fit the bill (I don't intend to ever use them with speakers), connection of my headphones would be via banana clips to the speaker taps, perhaps with a resistor in between for my HD-800. and b) is it realistic to take this on as a first build project?
Another viable alternative that I found is the B-22 but I believe constructing it would be even harder. Once again, it's meant to be a learning experience for me as much as anything else. But the end objective is obviously to end up with a working amplifier.
Thanks for your thoughts!
I want to get into amp building, never touched a soldering iron in my life, know virtually nothing about electricity/electronics. Those are the negatives.
The positives: I'm generally a quick learner and assimilating theory is not an issue. Also, I've got time and budget available.
I'd like to build a dedicated (speaker) amp for my HE-6 headphone. As most of you will know these are power hungry beasts. From what i've learned the 'ideal' combo seems to be with a low-gain, not über powerful speaker amp. From the research I've done it seems like the FirstWatt clones are generally excellent candidates.
Now my 2 questions: a) do you agree that these amps indeed will fit the bill (I don't intend to ever use them with speakers), connection of my headphones would be via banana clips to the speaker taps, perhaps with a resistor in between for my HD-800. and b) is it realistic to take this on as a first build project?
Another viable alternative that I found is the B-22 but I believe constructing it would be even harder. Once again, it's meant to be a learning experience for me as much as anything else. But the end objective is obviously to end up with a working amplifier.
Thanks for your thoughts!
So here it goes:
1- Learning how to solder isn't hard, you should buy a perf board and some cheap resistors and pratice a few times. A good quality iron and quality solder ( quality here doesn't mean audiophool solder) goes a long way to getting good results. There are some lists online about what is the minimum equipment you should have to undertake such a project.
2- between a first watt amplifier and the b22 you should have the same amount of difficulty, if you use the diyaudio store cases with pre drilled heatsinks. The b22 just has a lot more soldering points and will take a few extra hours at populating the pcbs.
If you follow the instructions in amb's website or one of the building guides from diyaudio member 6L6 and triple check every step of the way you should be ok. Both projects have extensive support and forum based assistance, so in case something goes wrong you will have someone to help you.
I'll list some pros and cons for each project in my opinion:
B22 pros:
-designed from the ground up as a high power headphone amplifier
-regulated power supply
-doesn't need a preamp
-easy to source a kit via glassjaraudio with all the necessary parts excluding case.
- highly detailed website with bill of materials, setup procedure and so on.
B22 cons:
- case layout is very important to minimise noise and a 2 case build to keep the psu away from the amp is highly recomended. Increases cost a bit.
- lack of output protection means that you must be really careful to not remove the headphones with power on if using regular 1/4 inch jacks. The momentary short will kill the output stage. Doesn't happen if you use xlr connectors as the is no short.
FW clone pros:
-Easier to assemble as there are less parts to solder and if you go with the diyaudio store case, the casework is all done.
-!might! Be cheaper to build depending on configuration and parts choice.
- will power speakers in the future
FW clone cons:
-might need a preamp depending on the rest of your system, increasing costs
-might have noise issues with headphone use due to sensitivity of headphones and unregulated power supply
- must source parts from different suppliers
All this being said, I'd personally go with the b22.
1- Learning how to solder isn't hard, you should buy a perf board and some cheap resistors and pratice a few times. A good quality iron and quality solder ( quality here doesn't mean audiophool solder) goes a long way to getting good results. There are some lists online about what is the minimum equipment you should have to undertake such a project.
2- between a first watt amplifier and the b22 you should have the same amount of difficulty, if you use the diyaudio store cases with pre drilled heatsinks. The b22 just has a lot more soldering points and will take a few extra hours at populating the pcbs.
If you follow the instructions in amb's website or one of the building guides from diyaudio member 6L6 and triple check every step of the way you should be ok. Both projects have extensive support and forum based assistance, so in case something goes wrong you will have someone to help you.
I'll list some pros and cons for each project in my opinion:
B22 pros:
-designed from the ground up as a high power headphone amplifier
-regulated power supply
-doesn't need a preamp
-easy to source a kit via glassjaraudio with all the necessary parts excluding case.
- highly detailed website with bill of materials, setup procedure and so on.
B22 cons:
- case layout is very important to minimise noise and a 2 case build to keep the psu away from the amp is highly recomended. Increases cost a bit.
- lack of output protection means that you must be really careful to not remove the headphones with power on if using regular 1/4 inch jacks. The momentary short will kill the output stage. Doesn't happen if you use xlr connectors as the is no short.
FW clone pros:
-Easier to assemble as there are less parts to solder and if you go with the diyaudio store case, the casework is all done.
-!might! Be cheaper to build depending on configuration and parts choice.
- will power speakers in the future
FW clone cons:
-might need a preamp depending on the rest of your system, increasing costs
-might have noise issues with headphone use due to sensitivity of headphones and unregulated power supply
- must source parts from different suppliers
All this being said, I'd personally go with the b22.
Despite thereports of your headphones being "power hungry" they still only need milliwatts, not tens of watts. I wasn't familiar with them so I read several reviews. I thought it funny that one reviewer complained that he had to turn the volume knob past 12 o'clock to get a comfortable volume. All that means is he is not throwing away as much gain in the pot as with other phones. Sure, it's a bit more power but realistically if your usual listening volume has the knob at 9-10 o'clock it means your system has too much gain overall.
An F5T is orders of magnitude overkill for any headphones. Considering the 50 ohm impedance I can see how a CMOY might not have the current capability needed but you don't need 50W/8 ohms. An Aleph J or standard F5 are more appropriate options, that are still way overkill. If you go that route, be sure to try them with good speakers, too.
As MASantos points out, the First Watt amps are good first project options with boards and cases from the DIYAudio store. Just take your time and practice soldering quickly so you don't overheat your parts. Heat, apply solder, get out.
If you want to build something smaller, that still has plenty of capability to drive your headphones, consider this http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/244954-aleph-h-schematic-revealed-last.html You can build it on an Aleph J board with some parts changes if you aren't willing to try laying out your own board.
Edit: You can use these boards to build an Aleph H http://chipamp.com/product/aleph-through-hole-pcb-set/ I have them in standard mini Aleph configuration, and they are very nice,
An F5T is orders of magnitude overkill for any headphones. Considering the 50 ohm impedance I can see how a CMOY might not have the current capability needed but you don't need 50W/8 ohms. An Aleph J or standard F5 are more appropriate options, that are still way overkill. If you go that route, be sure to try them with good speakers, too.
As MASantos points out, the First Watt amps are good first project options with boards and cases from the DIYAudio store. Just take your time and practice soldering quickly so you don't overheat your parts. Heat, apply solder, get out.
If you want to build something smaller, that still has plenty of capability to drive your headphones, consider this http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/244954-aleph-h-schematic-revealed-last.html You can build it on an Aleph J board with some parts changes if you aren't willing to try laying out your own board.
Edit: You can use these boards to build an Aleph H http://chipamp.com/product/aleph-through-hole-pcb-set/ I have them in standard mini Aleph configuration, and they are very nice,
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No!
The F5, "t" or not is not a beginner's project.
It could be made by a complete newbie, but I'd advise that it takes too much in the $$ department, and requires *good* soldering skills and an understanding of quite a few details of construction and theory to complete the build.
Also the F5 requires actual construction, as in drilling, tapping, holes, and the like... it's not a complete kit.
My suggestion would be to first buy a very inexpensive and maybe random PCB based project kit (you know chasing LEDs or the like) and build that without error and with good looking solder connections.
An F5T is actually a POWERFUL amplifier - WAY WAY WAY too much power for headphones.
You *could* dial DOWN the circuit and use less B+ and smaller output Mosfets (much smaller) and get a useable headphone amp in the 4-5 watt area, or less. It's the circuit topology that you would be using, NOT the values in the original schematic. So, if ur a fast learner, and maybe can use SPICE, you can scale the design down to meet your actual needs.
Btw, anyone who talks about where the "knob" was turned has zero clue about how an amplifier works or what is going on inside the box - disregard such commentary.
Now, if *you* don't know about this yet, I'd suggest that you are very low on the learning curve, and ought to read up more.
My suggestion is to "ramp up" first building at least one or two FULL kits that are known to function when built properly, then try a "semi-kit" where you have to add some mechanical elements and do some drilling and blasting.
Btw, you almost certainly need a scope and a good DVM. To do more than PCB mounted stuff you need a versatile soldering iron or more than one. One to handle small items with finer tips at low temps and one to handle big honking connections of heavy wires at higher temps and big or bigger tips.
_-_-
The F5, "t" or not is not a beginner's project.
It could be made by a complete newbie, but I'd advise that it takes too much in the $$ department, and requires *good* soldering skills and an understanding of quite a few details of construction and theory to complete the build.
Also the F5 requires actual construction, as in drilling, tapping, holes, and the like... it's not a complete kit.
My suggestion would be to first buy a very inexpensive and maybe random PCB based project kit (you know chasing LEDs or the like) and build that without error and with good looking solder connections.
An F5T is actually a POWERFUL amplifier - WAY WAY WAY too much power for headphones.
You *could* dial DOWN the circuit and use less B+ and smaller output Mosfets (much smaller) and get a useable headphone amp in the 4-5 watt area, or less. It's the circuit topology that you would be using, NOT the values in the original schematic. So, if ur a fast learner, and maybe can use SPICE, you can scale the design down to meet your actual needs.
Btw, anyone who talks about where the "knob" was turned has zero clue about how an amplifier works or what is going on inside the box - disregard such commentary.
Now, if *you* don't know about this yet, I'd suggest that you are very low on the learning curve, and ought to read up more.
My suggestion is to "ramp up" first building at least one or two FULL kits that are known to function when built properly, then try a "semi-kit" where you have to add some mechanical elements and do some drilling and blasting.
Btw, you almost certainly need a scope and a good DVM. To do more than PCB mounted stuff you need a versatile soldering iron or more than one. One to handle small items with finer tips at low temps and one to handle big honking connections of heavy wires at higher temps and big or bigger tips.
_-_-
The only problem with the FW amps and the b22 as well is the power supply section. It will require working with 120/240 AC and this needs some knowledge and safety measures. There is much info around the internet regarding ac safety.
The pre drilled chassis makes construction a breeze and as simple as turning a screwdriver.
You'll probably know someone with some electrical knowledge, and if not you can always ask a professional to guide you through the ac section of the project
The pre drilled chassis makes construction a breeze and as simple as turning a screwdriver.
You'll probably know someone with some electrical knowledge, and if not you can always ask a professional to guide you through the ac section of the project
This in no way reflects on you -- but the sources that have propagated that myth are complete and total imbeciles. Their ignorance and misinformation is exceeded only by the genuinely dangerous risks they take to their hearing and destroying their expensive headphones.
There are many headphone amps that will drive anything you can attach to them. For DIY projects like the O2 (Objective 2), the AMB M3, and the AMB CK2III immediately come to mind, and there are more.
Please understand that there are many people in headphone land who genuinely don't know what they are talking about, and although they are getting results that do work and are operational, it's very far from ideal or safe.
This might be taken to the headphone forum, but the CK2III is a fully discrete no negative feedback amplifier with 1.6W into 33ohm which should be over 1W into 50ohm. It is quite simple to build with all the parts for the amplifier and psu in the same board, and has a small footprint. Pair it with a nice potentiometer, and an off board transformer and you'll have a very good amplifier for power hungry cans. It will have more power than the standard configuration m3, and IMO, sounds much better.
This said, even 1W might be low for those cans, and the extra headroom of the b22 might be really useful for such inefficient headphones.
This said, even 1W might be low for those cans, and the extra headroom of the b22 might be really useful for such inefficient headphones.
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Agreed. It's where I started.
It comes in a full kit version (including chassis and heatsinks), it's simple and there is a huge amount of help available with it. It can be made in a day and there is no mains power involved.
It helped me understand what individual components do and what they do when combined with each other.
A good website to help with the basics is called decibel dungeon. Also have a look at YouTube, in particular videos on transistors and voltage dividers. There's also an article on this site about gain stages which is pretty good.
Build and understand the ACA and you will probably be able to answe your own questions.
I dont see how the ACA helps the OP. It's made as mono blocks which doesn't really make it easy to use headphones. It was mad to be a starting point in speaker amps, and it doesn't really look suitable for headphone usage, as it will need some sort of preamp to be useful. There are a number of dedicated headphone amplifiers out there, which are quite different from speaker amps for a good reasonl
Maybe this one very simple and save
Oatley K272 JAN 6418 Valve (Tube) Preamplifier / Headphone Amp Kit
Greetings
Oatley K272 JAN 6418 Valve (Tube) Preamplifier / Headphone Amp Kit
Greetings
If your purpose is to save money, then don't DIY and just buy something decent.
DIY, in my own experience, will always cost more in the end, except maybe for the very high end stuff, which is nothing for a novice.
If your purpose is to start a new hobby and want some guarantee for success, you should build something based on ICs not not discrete circuits.
You will less likely to end up cooking your HE-6 even if things go wrong, and they will go wrong.
If you do want to learn about analog electronics from scratch, and use this hobby as a motivation, then you should start by reading :
The Art of Electronics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and then start with the original Zen :
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/the-zen-amplifier
followed by all the variations published. There is no better guide out there to teach you progressively.
It is an illusion to think that, because a Pass circuit looks simple, that you can just buy a board or a kit and solder together, and it will work first time. You will just end up asking people here for help and do remote debugging for you. And that will of course not work, with no understanding of electronics whatsoever on your part.
My 2 cents,
Patrick
DIY, in my own experience, will always cost more in the end, except maybe for the very high end stuff, which is nothing for a novice.
If your purpose is to start a new hobby and want some guarantee for success, you should build something based on ICs not not discrete circuits.
You will less likely to end up cooking your HE-6 even if things go wrong, and they will go wrong.
If you do want to learn about analog electronics from scratch, and use this hobby as a motivation, then you should start by reading :
The Art of Electronics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and then start with the original Zen :
https://www.passdiy.com/project/amplifiers/the-zen-amplifier
followed by all the variations published. There is no better guide out there to teach you progressively.
It is an illusion to think that, because a Pass circuit looks simple, that you can just buy a board or a kit and solder together, and it will work first time. You will just end up asking people here for help and do remote debugging for you. And that will of course not work, with no understanding of electronics whatsoever on your part.
My 2 cents,
Patrick
My vote for The Art of Electronics. Excellent and easy to read.
I go back to trying out a cheap "novelty" kit, and see if you can manage to make that work or not, as a preliminary step.
I vote *against* the original Zen circuit, it's a bit more tricky than it looks, and without the correct layout it will oscillate (and let the magic smoke out). Back in the day, when it was new and hot (yesterday's "F5") a number of local folks managed to fry them as their first builds. It's almost as difficult as a more complicated amp, needs a full PS, and is unsuitable for the stated headphone application.
A decent chipamp, low power, with a complete PCB, through hole components and maybe a group buy enclosure, or maybe find one bundled as a kit would be more like it for a first *real* build... there are a few super low distortion chips today that fit the bill for power and simplicity... but first prove that you can build *something* and make it work.
_-_-
I go back to trying out a cheap "novelty" kit, and see if you can manage to make that work or not, as a preliminary step.
I vote *against* the original Zen circuit, it's a bit more tricky than it looks, and without the correct layout it will oscillate (and let the magic smoke out). Back in the day, when it was new and hot (yesterday's "F5") a number of local folks managed to fry them as their first builds. It's almost as difficult as a more complicated amp, needs a full PS, and is unsuitable for the stated headphone application.
A decent chipamp, low power, with a complete PCB, through hole components and maybe a group buy enclosure, or maybe find one bundled as a kit would be more like it for a first *real* build... there are a few super low distortion chips today that fit the bill for power and simplicity... but first prove that you can build *something* and make it work.
_-_-
Do both. Buy a nice headphone amp. Separate from that get into the hobby of building amplifiers, it's fun and rewarding. Along with doing your reading on basic electricity and basic electronics you need to start building something. I like the idea of the original Zen. Build one channel point to point on perf board. Use a desktop DC power supply. Hook it up to a small speaker and an iPod. If it makes music you've successfully built your first amplifier. Thats what I did. You will start developing some skills (reading schematics, soldering, putting together a BOM, sourcing parts, etc.). Have fun with it!
Thanks to all who responded. I have to say I didn't expect people to invest the amount of time they did in writing out a response but it's very much appreciated.
To clarify/elaborate a bit further:
1. My intention with DIY is not to save money. It'll be a hobby and frankly, I'm nor making a profit on any of my hobbies, not even on bread and pastry making (though I could on that one if I wanted but then it'd become a job, which I don't want to happen). But I like music and the technology behind it and want to understand it and build something useful while I'm at it.
2. I already have some gear, notably as far as amps go I own one ODAC/O2, a Violectric V200 which puts out 2.75 A into a 50 Ohm load (for my HE-6) and a dual mono tube amp that uses 6AS7/6080 and 6SJ7 tubes. If I'd want to purchase more I simply can pull my card and be done with it but just like in pastry, I can imagine it tastes better if you made it yourself, even if it's not absolutely perfect.
3. I own 'The art of electronics' and like it a lot but it's time to get my hands dirty otherwise it the same as reading about s*x but...you get the picture.
4. For the HE-6: I agree that there are audiophools around who like to sink 1000's in stuff like cables, which to me in incomprehensible. I also know the calculations to determine how much power a headphone needs to reach a certain SPL level. But with those cans all I can say is that the numbers don't paint the entire picture and that they DO sound better out of a good speaker amp. Don't ask me to explain. I can't and until recently I also thought the speaker amp thing was a load of steaming dung but it isn't, provided you don't screw things up by picking something with a lot of power, high gain and a gain structure that will increase the noise floor + a sloppy resistor network that will introduce a load of Johnson noise. Of course some people go overboard and risk blowing either a driver, an eardrum or their amplifier.
5. You guys are right about starting out modest. I *might* be able to put together a functioning F5 but I'd be following instructions like a monkey and not understand what I was doing. Will re-read everything at ease and then select something more modest as a first project.
Once again, many thanks to all who responded. I hope to once be in a position where I can give back something!
To clarify/elaborate a bit further:
1. My intention with DIY is not to save money. It'll be a hobby and frankly, I'm nor making a profit on any of my hobbies, not even on bread and pastry making (though I could on that one if I wanted but then it'd become a job, which I don't want to happen). But I like music and the technology behind it and want to understand it and build something useful while I'm at it.
2. I already have some gear, notably as far as amps go I own one ODAC/O2, a Violectric V200 which puts out 2.75 A into a 50 Ohm load (for my HE-6) and a dual mono tube amp that uses 6AS7/6080 and 6SJ7 tubes. If I'd want to purchase more I simply can pull my card and be done with it but just like in pastry, I can imagine it tastes better if you made it yourself, even if it's not absolutely perfect.
3. I own 'The art of electronics' and like it a lot but it's time to get my hands dirty otherwise it the same as reading about s*x but...you get the picture.
4. For the HE-6: I agree that there are audiophools around who like to sink 1000's in stuff like cables, which to me in incomprehensible. I also know the calculations to determine how much power a headphone needs to reach a certain SPL level. But with those cans all I can say is that the numbers don't paint the entire picture and that they DO sound better out of a good speaker amp. Don't ask me to explain. I can't and until recently I also thought the speaker amp thing was a load of steaming dung but it isn't, provided you don't screw things up by picking something with a lot of power, high gain and a gain structure that will increase the noise floor + a sloppy resistor network that will introduce a load of Johnson noise. Of course some people go overboard and risk blowing either a driver, an eardrum or their amplifier.
5. You guys are right about starting out modest. I *might* be able to put together a functioning F5 but I'd be following instructions like a monkey and not understand what I was doing. Will re-read everything at ease and then select something more modest as a first project.
Once again, many thanks to all who responded. I hope to once be in a position where I can give back something!
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