Does Bi-Amping with F5 for the lows and AlephJ for mid/high make sense? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 28th March 2013, 09:53 PM   #11
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I think there's one important advantage to "biamping" into the speaker's passive
crossovers, which is that it allows you to use different amplifiers to get
the sound you want. You might do something like an F5 or comparable SS
amp on the bottom (or maybe more power!) and then drive the mids and top
with tubes or something else, maybe lower power Class A.

This really works, and of course you want to be able to independently adjust
the levels of the amplifiers. Even when identical amplifiers are used top and
bottom, you often find yourself needing a level tweak.

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Old 28th March 2013, 11:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by donLuciano View Post
I would start with first option and later followed by option 2. We need to keep on building ) Thats the fun of this hobby
Right, and another way to put this is that we cheapskate DIYers should take advantage of making upgrades in the smallest steps possible (baby steps!), for the sake of both the extra experience AND stretching our pocket money. No sense in peaking too early and have no money left over for tunes nor any experience for listening?

Although my long term plan is to go to fully digital active bi-amping, for now I am quite pleased with analog passively bi-amping on top while analog actively bi-amping on the bottom. Does that make it Analog Passive-Active Bi-amping? Maybe that's another term for AndrewT's UK-US dictionary?
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Old 29th March 2013, 02:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Pass View Post
I think there's one important advantage to "biamping" into the speaker's passive
crossovers, which is that it allows you to use different amplifiers to get
the sound you want. You might do something like an F5 or comparable SS
amp on the bottom (or maybe more power!) and then drive the mids and top
with tubes or something else, maybe lower power Class A.

This really works, and of course you want to be able to independently adjust
the levels of the amplifiers. Even when identical amplifiers are used top and
bottom, you often find yourself needing a level tweak.

I have actually put this advantage to good use, knowing that my speakers' frequency response has a livelier top end compared to the mid-band. I utilized my 14dB gain Zen v4j for the tweeters and a stock 20dB Aleph 3 for the basses/mids. It eliminated both tizziness and sibilance even at high volume levels. In my room it is now more well balanced across the audio bandwidth and can be listened to for long periods of time. My system also does double duty as a stereo home theater and bi-amping really helps the low end response on special effects sounds.

I also tried the other way around and it was naturally unbalanced and unlistenable. I also tried a W'speed V12 to adjust levels independently for bass/mids and highs but I kept going back to the unadjusted levels as the above bi-amping. I have been enjoying my system this way for over 5 years now.

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Old 29th March 2013, 08:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Pass View Post
I think there's one important advantage to "biamping" into the speaker's passive
crossovers, which is that it allows you to use different amplifiers to get
the sound you want. You might do something like an F5 or comparable SS
amp on the bottom (or maybe more power!) and then drive the mids and top
with tubes or something else, maybe lower power Class A.

This really works, and of course you want to be able to independently adjust
the levels of the amplifiers. Even when identical amplifiers are used top and
bottom, you often find yourself needing a level tweak.

I don't see how you can bi-amp into a passive crossover with different amps for top and bottom. This would require (passive or active) filtering before the amps and subsequent bypassing of the passive crossover in the speaker.

If two amps sound different, at least one of them is wrong.
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Old 29th March 2013, 09:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacuphile View Post
I don't see how you can bi-amp into a passive crossover with different amps for top and bottom. This would require (passive or active) filtering before the amps and subsequent bypassing of the passive crossover in the speaker.

If two amps sound different, at least one of them is wrong.
why do you need the crossover before the amps? there is no problem using the internal crossover.
and why can't you use different amps for low and top end?
you may want a amp with a strong bottom on the lowpass, and maybe a more laidback amp on the top.

Last edited by AudioSan; 29th March 2013 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 29th March 2013, 12:56 PM   #16
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Using the internal crossover cannot be done at with series filters, and with parallel you would need to open the box, split the filter, and this is usually impossible or inpractical to do. It would also be rather silly. One of the nice things of bi-amplification is that you can get rid of a whole bunch of coils and caps which are at the exact wrong place in the signal path: where their operating points are determined by the non-linear characteristics of the drivers. It is much better to do the filtering at a spot where input and output impedances are exactly defined, that is, before the amps.

Both 'amps with a strong bottom' and 'laidback' are in all likelyhood not true wire-with-gain type of devices, but effect boxes. If a speaker needs compensation of one kind or another, the amplification stage is not the best place to apply them; that's where filters are for.
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Old 29th March 2013, 02:00 PM   #17
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vacuphile

you're in wrong forum

that sort of demagogy is simply out of fashion here
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Old 29th March 2013, 02:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
I don't see how you can bi-amp into a passive crossover with different amps for top and bottom.
Very easy: you have a parallel passive filter for your bass and a separate filter for your mid/highs, tada ... you can use two amps
Many commercial speakers can be bi-amped,
if not, they will with some DIY
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Old 29th March 2013, 03:31 PM   #19
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Sorry, thought people were here to learn, wrong church.
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Old 29th March 2013, 05:20 PM   #20
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there are various paths

preaching just one as sole right one is not teaching , at least not in my book
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