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Old 29th January 2013, 09:34 PM   #21
dsdjoy is offline dsdjoy  Germany
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Originally Posted by cringvig View Post

Not much the speakers are these DIY:


What do you think ?

the Accuton drivers are known for very low THD.
Troels Gravesen says about his Jenzen Accuton Speakers - they are similar to your Soup Ceramique:

"This is the lowest distortion levels I have ever measured from a loudspeaker."

"Getz/Gilberto....sounded ruthlessly naked, not as lush and colourful as I remember it."


'The "thing" about these Accuton drivers is that you pretty much get what you feed them. So, can your system - and your ears - "handle the truth?" '

A sound having fuller midrange and 'voices' can be introduced by an amplifier that has a known and defined level of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion. Technically speaking, you may want to make your amplifier a little bit 'worse' in terms of THD, than it actually could perform.
(I think BA-3 and F6 have pot's to adjust for K2/K3).

Nelson describes the effects of harmonic distortion on perceived sound here:
6moons.com - industry features: "Distortion &*Negative Feedback" by Nelson Pass

So, if you would like to have a fuller, or more warm sound, or more pronounced voices - with speakers that have the lowest distortion in the industry - you could try adjusting your AMP (e.g. a BA-3) for THD, K2 and K3. And you can also try to listen to Vinyl, which is known to have higher distortion than CD.

As a very quick check on how distortion affects our sound perception, you could use the free "http://www.voxengo.com/product/tubeamp/" VST plugin when playing back music from PC - modifying the plugin parameters. This gave me a first idea about the effect of distortion on sound perception.

Once I understood it, I spent weeks on tuning a Semisouth based amplifier for THD, K2 and K3, and can say that it makes a significant difference on my speakers. I was able to tune the amp, to the sound I like.
I also observed, that the cold amp had low distortion, and I liked the sound much better, when the amp was really hot and had higher distortion. That is somehow matching your observation, that you like the sound better, when you keep your amp always 'on'.

As for the next thing, I am personally looking for a J2-alike or F6-alike amp from Nelson with 4 or 6 Semisouth per side !

Last edited by dsdjoy; 29th January 2013 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 2nd February 2013, 12:49 AM   #22
dsdjoy is offline dsdjoy  Germany
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2009

could I ask you to post a listening experience with your speakers ?

Reason is, that I am considering to buy also Accuton speakers. Those:
(Site is in German, but you get an idea).

Thinking more about your report, I was thinking that a J2 amp might suit you best. It is unique in a sense, that it creates a rich mid-tone, creates a specific shiny, magic sparkle around voices - and strangely: while having rich bass and mid's it also provides a sharp and microscopic view on details and high tones.

What I can not say is, wether the output power of a J2 will match the requirements of your speakers. You might wanna try, if you find a dealer with a J2.
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Old 3rd February 2013, 08:40 AM   #23
cringvig is offline cringvig  Denmark
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Hi dsdjoy

It is difficult to explain the sound but the story goes like this, I have had a set of Final 0.3 electrostats and a friend of mine have Martin Logan and I like that voices is "out" in the room and the micro details from the voices, however I did miss the body and punch in the sound.
In the construction from Tony Gee and the units from Thiel and Partner I got all that i was missing from the electrostats but still have the naked truth and micro details.

When it comes to the hardware before then they are VERY revealing that means they play what they got and if you down grade just a small component then they punish you right away.
I am playing high res. files from the iMac via M2tech and then to the Wadia 521 DAC.
The amps amp I have tried is the Lyngdorf this was a disaster, then Mcintosh MC275 this was ok but I was missing the black silent background then I end up with the Pass XA30.5 and this had it all, the only problem was that I missed the thing about building it myself so of it goes and then I was thinking of building the A75 again.

For the moment I have borrowed a BA-3 from a friend with double output boards but it is missing the final out of the speaker feeling, so the plan is to built a BA-2 with double complementary output boards, run it balanced to see how much difference it make.
After that i have to try a Apleph 2 with low rails voltage and higher bias.

I am a little concerned about the single ended output of First watt and Alephs as the impedance is as low as 3.8ohm at 250Hz and the over all is about 4 ohms.

FIY I have one extra set of cabinets and 2009 crossover for the Soup Ceramic, then you could do it way cheaper than the speakerhaven.

Best reagrds
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