understood.
I will go into details my self....
Now talking about just techincal details not about the pass but in general,
I find it interesting that you are saying you can bias for SE without using a current source, which only leaves the simple resistor.
While you can get power resistor that can handle 5 or more W in a relative small package and that feet on the PCB, on the other hand a resistive load will offer low SE bias at low level and higher as level goes up, which would seem to me to be backwarded since you want to have more quality as the level goes down and your hear is more sensitive.
Have you tried both ways, and if so what are the difference you can report if you want to share your own opinion...
I will go into details my self....
Now talking about just techincal details not about the pass but in general,
I find it interesting that you are saying you can bias for SE without using a current source, which only leaves the simple resistor.
While you can get power resistor that can handle 5 or more W in a relative small package and that feet on the PCB, on the other hand a resistive load will offer low SE bias at low level and higher as level goes up, which would seem to me to be backwarded since you want to have more quality as the level goes down and your hear is more sensitive.
Have you tried both ways, and if so what are the difference you can report if you want to share your own opinion...
it really depends what amount of SE bias you want to achieve
if you want small amount , resistors are fine (calc their power for max amplitude , of course ) but - if you want greater amount - which will inevitably result in increased variation of SE current (which , per se , must not be a bad thing ) , then "active" CCS solution is better .
I didn't tried extensively to find audible difference between resistor and active , mostly because i didn't needed implementation of SE bias in my toys ; they were mostly SE variations anyway , and ones not belonging in SE camp already had heavy load on implemented parts ......
but - I have a feeling that I'm going to try more these things pretty soon ...... tnx to recent correspondence here
if you want small amount , resistors are fine (calc their power for max amplitude , of course ) but - if you want greater amount - which will inevitably result in increased variation of SE current (which , per se , must not be a bad thing ) , then "active" CCS solution is better .
I didn't tried extensively to find audible difference between resistor and active , mostly because i didn't needed implementation of SE bias in my toys ; they were mostly SE variations anyway , and ones not belonging in SE camp already had heavy load on implemented parts ......
but - I have a feeling that I'm going to try more these things pretty soon ...... tnx to recent correspondence here
this correspondence now delighted me so much that I can't wait to find some time to work on this thing...
I was thinking that if someone thought that Se was better he should just go for a SE topology, but then the high inefficiency and the probably extremely mellow sound of a pure SE compared to a faster push-pull topology but less liquid came to mind.
But the idea of mixing the two configuration with this simple trick, makes me wonder if the amp gains the nice parts of both....
I was thinking that if someone thought that Se was better he should just go for a SE topology, but then the high inefficiency and the probably extremely mellow sound of a pure SE compared to a faster push-pull topology but less liquid came to mind.
But the idea of mixing the two configuration with this simple trick, makes me wonder if the amp gains the nice parts of both....
I don't listen to, nor buy commercial loudspeakers, I design my own. I do use the FST mid-range from B&W though and I know what it's good and bad points are - one bad point is a strong resonance at around 3.5kHz - something B&W haven't even attempted to filter out. It is well known that using the FST up so high with simple filtering gives B&Ws loudspeakers a specific sound, away from being completely neutral, some people like this and some don't.
I have a mild case of hyperacusis and leaving a 5dB peak in the middle of where our ears are most sensitive would leave me running for the volume knob.
I have a mild case of hyperacusis and leaving a 5dB peak in the middle of where our ears are most sensitive would leave me running for the volume knob.
interesting 5th element.
Here is what I think...assuming you are right, do you think that B&W with their expert team of engineers would sell the flagship if it reall had the issue you mentioned?
I am not saying I am sure you are right, I am just questioning, since the factory has been successfully built speakers for over 20-30 years....and has a huge know how.
For instance, the oval shape on speaker, who was the first one to implement it? B&W and now everybody is adopting it because it lowers stationary's waves inside their cabinets...and other solution...materials....I mean...they have always been pioneers on this field and I am just questioning a bit your statement.
Now, do you build your speaker as your job?
Are you a audio/electrical engineer? Do you have concrete experience and proven experience on this filed?
Have you ever partecipated to an audio show or been reviewd or won any award with your line of product?
Do you have a line of product?
I mean I am not saying that I gam already assuming that you are just a person who cuts and copies other people's project, but I am just trying to understand your background that's all since you made such a strong statement...
Here is what I think...assuming you are right, do you think that B&W with their expert team of engineers would sell the flagship if it reall had the issue you mentioned?
I am not saying I am sure you are right, I am just questioning, since the factory has been successfully built speakers for over 20-30 years....and has a huge know how.
For instance, the oval shape on speaker, who was the first one to implement it? B&W and now everybody is adopting it because it lowers stationary's waves inside their cabinets...and other solution...materials....I mean...they have always been pioneers on this field and I am just questioning a bit your statement.
Now, do you build your speaker as your job?
Are you a audio/electrical engineer? Do you have concrete experience and proven experience on this filed?
Have you ever partecipated to an audio show or been reviewd or won any award with your line of product?
Do you have a line of product?
I mean I am not saying that I gam already assuming that you are just a person who cuts and copies other people's project, but I am just trying to understand your background that's all since you made such a strong statement...
Just go buy one of the newer Pass amps and then tell us how it sounds. At least then we can step away from theory and speculation to hearing and opinion. If you don't like it, resale it and buy the other one. If you don't like it, sale it and buy the one you have. You know you'll like it since you already have one.
Thanks for your comment.
If you see on my first post, I will buy a X600.5 or a XA200.5.
These units are EXTREMELY expensive and I can't afford it at this moment.
For a demo unit we are talking about 24K for the XA and probably 18K for the X.5
Even used they still run over 12K...so I will have to wait next year to do that.
I am sure I will love them, but since I can't afford them now I want to play a little around and see what I can do and then later consider the stock unit.
I could get a X250.5 or a X350.5 but I know I ultemately want the flagships so I just wait a little longer.
Comparison with mine would make no sense, they are amp on different leagues.
I am sure I can re-use the X250 to create something pretty nice that can hold up the next purchase for a little while.
If you see on my first post, I will buy a X600.5 or a XA200.5.
These units are EXTREMELY expensive and I can't afford it at this moment.
For a demo unit we are talking about 24K for the XA and probably 18K for the X.5
Even used they still run over 12K...so I will have to wait next year to do that.
I am sure I will love them, but since I can't afford them now I want to play a little around and see what I can do and then later consider the stock unit.
I could get a X250.5 or a X350.5 but I know I ultemately want the flagships so I just wait a little longer.
Comparison with mine would make no sense, they are amp on different leagues.
I am sure I can re-use the X250 to create something pretty nice that can hold up the next purchase for a little while.
whatever you think - those boyz from olde E. sold ya mucho drek for that money
X250P is at least one step above them in verity .
not that they're crappy spks , but story is too much contained in price .
didn't get that! Can you explain further?
LOL...
Now ZM , define modern speakers, you know , the ones you dont fancy ... 
Do you do any comparisons, or are you designing in a vacuum 5th ? What are you looking for , flat on axis , off or avg ..
To get any idea of sound , it takes more than just frequency response graph, impulse, phase angles, Step, impedance curves, polar plots all play a role in quality of reproduction
But you know that already ....
I'm just telling that major part of price you paid for these spks is going for salaries of boyz from advertising department
whatever they wrote that they were first ....... they weren't ;
oval shape for spk box was already boiled water first time they use it
Helmholtz resonator , phase coherent situation of drivers blahblah - all things well known from start of acoustic transducers , in pro world
they're good , but not revolutionary ; except in making cones from Kevlar .....
so - conclusion - your spks are good , but only tnx to fact that B&W's engineers are much more honest than guys from advertising department
whatever they wrote that they were first ....... they weren't ;
oval shape for spk box was already boiled water first time they use it
Helmholtz resonator , phase coherent situation of drivers blahblah - all things well known from start of acoustic transducers , in pro world
they're good , but not revolutionary ; except in making cones from Kevlar .....
so - conclusion - your spks are good , but only tnx to fact that B&W's engineers are much more honest than guys from advertising department
LOL...
........
I'm just telling that major part of price you paid for these spks is going for salaries of boyz from advertising department
whatever they wrote that they were first ....... they weren't ;
oval shape for spk box was already boiled water first time they use it
Helmholtz resonator , phase coherent situation of drivers blahblah - all things well known from start of acoustic transducers , in pro world
they're good , but not revolutionary ; except in making cones from Kevlar .....
so - conclusion - your spks are good , but only tnx to fact that B&W's engineers are much more honest than guys from advertising department
I understand but they were the first one to implement those things though......!!
I don't care about marketing and stuff....I listen to things and decide if I like them or not and if they are worth to me the required amount...and just happened that those speakers are sounding extremely good to me (and not only me but other professionals as well)....other than that...I am glad if B&W is honest....but sincerely if they make something I don't like I don't buy it no matter what!
agree with rest , but not with that
when I wrote about things well known , that means that those things were already verified and used in praxis .
95% of bullocks from adv. can be sold only to ppl not aware what's happening and what already happens in industry , and boyz writing pamphlets are well aware of that .
so , let just stay on fact that your spks are good , especially good for you , and that's most important .
just read what Srajan (one of greatest wordoholics in biz
That is one way of putting it.
I won't add my 2c
I'm lazy bstrd
I answered those questions for which is not so easy to find answers ;
but , for these - you can find everything on web
start with Shearer horn era ....... and you'll see that B&W were just balls collecting boys , comparing to big players - WE,Altec, JBL ..... just to mention those from other side of big splash ...... and there are many others from all sides of the world
I answered those questions for which is not so easy to find answers ;
but , for these - you can find everything on web
start with Shearer horn era ....... and you'll see that B&W were just balls collecting boys , comparing to big players - WE,Altec, JBL ..... just to mention those from other side of big splash ...... and there are many others from all sides of the world
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That is one way of putting it.
I won't add my 2c
don't ;
you're musician ............ other side of that wakoo coin
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