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Old 30th July 2012, 11:02 PM   #71
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well. they CANT make it for one's room. so yes. long live DIY
the parts for the F5 is not expensive. exept trafo's and heatsinks/chassis.
i used about $700. its not the turbo. but with dual outputs. so only the transformers vill do a little difference. from 2x 225VA and up to 2x 300VA
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Old 1st August 2012, 08:37 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
For sure, the original Sony 14 bit mastered CD's were poor and are the cause for a lot of the bias against digital. A lot of new music is done in basements with A2D no better than my Behringer. Good source has always been a problem. Bad CD's are probably half my collection. Of the good half, half of them are poor recordings on analog before being digitally remastered. Such is life. Great classical guitar seems to usually be a bad recording.

My current project speakers are very similar to the Zaph SR71. I use the metal dome version of the tweeter and some differences in the box, but wound up with the identical crossover when I was done.
If you listen to classical - with metal dome tweeters - I highly recommend using Mundorf M-Cap Supremes in series with the tweeters.
Also, suggest using OCC solid core copper wire with teflon insulation.
I used 20 awg with a B&W tweeter with great success.
Replace commercial grade wire wound resistors - with metal oxide resistors will soften up those metal domes too.

other suggestions

JS Bach - Transcriptions
Goran Sollscher
DG 435 471-2

this may be discontinued - but try to find a copy

S.L. Weiss
Sonatas for Lute
Franklin Lei
Naxos 8.550470
.
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Old 1st August 2012, 09:11 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by KatieandDad View Post
B&W actually use the term "Specially selected components" in their sales info.
On B&W's website they used to have good tech articals - unfortunately, they have been removed.
But attached is one, where they explain bi wiring.

One of the FAQ's was - could the existing caps be replaced with higher quality caps ?

B&W said not to do this because all the properties of the cap had been designed into the crossover.

What absolute rubbish.

B&W's, like any product, are built to a price point.

In the 1990's, the 600 series and Nautilus used Bennic resistors and caps.

So here they are, with the Beautiful FST mid range driver and Nautilus tweeter,
and the beautiful Nautilus cabinets
using Bennic resistors and caps.

It certainly would be interesting to see if signature series, have far better crossover components, than the original Nautilus series.
.
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Last edited by Uunderhill; 1st August 2012 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 1st August 2012, 09:55 PM   #74
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uunderhill View Post
If you listen to classical - with metal dome tweeters - I highly recommend using Mundorf M-Cap Supremes in series with the tweeters.
Also, suggest using OCC solid core copper wire with teflon insulation.
I used 20 awg with a B&W tweeter with great success.
Replace commercial grade wire wound resistors - with metal oxide resistors will soften up those metal domes too.

other suggestions

JS Bach - Transcriptions
Goran Sollscher
DG 435 471-2

this may be discontinued - but try to find a copy

S.L. Weiss
Sonatas for Lute
Franklin Lei
Naxos 8.550470
.
Always looking for good recording leads, thanks.
The current set I am building is the first time I have gone above Dayton film caps. This xover has a Clarity cap in the tweeter. The speakers are good enough, it may well be worth trying other caps. When using $20 tweeters, $50 caps make no sense. When using $50 tweeters, it may well change the rules.

I just don't think film at 10W or so. I really should. Again, thanks.
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Old 1st August 2012, 10:14 PM   #75
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uunderhill View Post
On B&W's website they used to have good tech articals - unfortunately, they have been removed.
But attached is one, where they explain bi wiring.

One of the FAQ's was - could the existing caps be replaced with higher quality caps ?

B&W said not to do this because all the properties of the cap had been designed into the crossover.

What absolute rubbish.

B&W's, like any product, are built to a price point.

In the 1990's, the 600 series and Nautilus used Bennic resistors and caps.

So here they are, with the Beautiful FST mid range driver and Nautilus tweeter,
and the beautiful Nautilus cabinets
using Bennic resistors and caps.

It certainly would be interesting to see if signature series, have far better crossover components, than the original Nautilus series.
.
As B&W is a big business, and they do have real research, I suspect they have allowed for, to as you do say, for the price point, compensated as best they could for the parts they chose. For their prestige, the last thing they would want is some DIY thread saying how you could improve their sound by changing a cap. That would be a disaster for their marketing.

Everything they publish is marketing. The above "tech" article is absolute rubbish playing into the press and dealer profits. I am not beating them up. They make nice products for fair prices and have to stay in business.

We have to separate "Madison Avenue" engineering from the real thing. They make it up, we filter it out.
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Old 1st August 2012, 11:05 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Always looking for good recording leads, thanks.
The current set I am building is the first time I have gone above Dayton film caps. This xover has a Clarity cap in the tweeter. The speakers are good enough, it may well be worth trying other caps. When using $20 tweeters, $50 caps make no sense. When using $50 tweeters, it may well change the rules.

I just don't think film at 10W or so. I really should. Again, thanks.
I checked the JSB Transcriptions disk.
Great music - great performance - sounds like 1990's Sony recording equipment.
Its a good recording.

From the literature available, it seems sometime circa 1990, Sony introduced 20 bit recording technology.

I also just re-checked the SL Weiss disk.
Unfortunately, the recording has a touch of harshness.
But of all the Weiss disks I have, this is the one I play all the time.

I have no experience with Clarity Caps or the Daytons.
Its the original AuriCap and Mundorf MKP and M-Cap Supremes I know.
For a digital source and metal dome tweeters,
the M-Cap Supreme has just the right balance between resolution and warmth to mask digital glare.
This cap moves the sonics very forward.
.
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Old 1st August 2012, 11:21 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
When using $20 tweeters, $50 caps make no sense. When using $50 tweeters, it may well change the rules.
Price does not matter at all, quality does. It often does not make a real price difference to produce fine stuff or mediocre stuff.

It all gets to numbers. If you are a producer of OEM parts you don't want the company that buys your stuff to have quality issues with its customers, especially if it buys large numbers.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 07:48 PM   #78
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Jean-paul,
I think you missed my point. Although price does not define quality, if you look at the performance you get for a very good $20 tweeter and the performance from a very good $50 tweeter, there is a huge difference. I full will grant you, there are $100 tweeters that are junk, and some of the $20 are pretty good. Retail, not OEM, cost I am talking. If a lot of people knew what these things sell for in 1000 lots, they would turn green.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 07:53 PM   #79
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Just looked up the M cap supreme. They are in reach so to speak. Silver and gold, no so yet. I'll try some.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 09:57 PM   #80
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well. a $20 driver with a $50 cap, will most likely sound better then a $50 driver with a $20 cap. that is his point.
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