Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Pass Labs

Pass Labs This forum is dedicated to Pass Labs discussion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th July 2012, 04:11 PM   #281
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
Beserk time. Am I incorrect in thinking that each secondary is not just provinding a single copy of the signal, but in fact is supplying two copies of the signal in opposite phase to each output fet.
again - as drawn by Papa in post #1 , those two secondaries are in phase

and , at least by my limited knowledge of English , he confirmed that

like always - Devil is in details

look at this - just little re-drawn , for clarity sake
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F6-SIMP.jpg (67.8 KB, 501 views)
File Type: jpg F6-SIMPwthsines.jpg (73.6 KB, 503 views)
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb ; Papatreasure

Last edited by Zen Mod; 26th July 2012 at 04:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 04:20 PM   #282
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Mod View Post
I'm not getting it

both types - depletion and enhancement - are "opening" more with rising voltage on gate (ref. source)
difference is just in biasing voltage - one needs negative , other needs positive (ref.source)


I am looking at the attached schematic and say: The devices must respond in and opposite manner given the same polarity signal and the same battery bias scheme. They are opposites by design; but ironically complementary with the added advantage of a proper polarity of voltages on their terminals [unlike P & N devices]. Thus, I cannot draw a circuit like it or better [F6] with an N-Enhancement MOSFET[top] and a P-Enhancement MOSFET [bottom] as kasey197 wrote earlier. Vds is clearly wrong [reversed] for the P device.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf OTLAmp4a.pdf (14.7 KB, 64 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 04:20 PM   #283
diyAudio Member
 
jacco vermeulen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: At the sea front, Rotterdam or Curaçao
Send a message via Yahoo to jacco vermeulen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Mod View Post
clarity
I Fet it : Conehead in, Voltage out
__________________
BOXES for crying out loud
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 04:25 PM   #284
diyAudio Member
 
tiefbassuebertr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: D-55629 Schwarzerden
what about the circuits from page 4 of my PDF file (go to first attachment by post #269)?
The first schema shows a special OP-AMP "AP12520", the Tango interstage (driver-) transformer N500-30 (2x 500 ohms to 2x30 ohms) and Toshiba MOSFET 2SK1530.
I think, the circuit description is to find in the MJ magazine - go to
MJ Magazine (formerly Musen to Jikken) - Yearly Index from 1924 - 2009 wanted
Diyaudio member "turnA_zpoint" maybe knows the associated issue.
I don't find the mentioned parts on the web (except the MOSFETs)
The second schema shows my favorite solution. I would replace the input stage by a modern version - I would prefer here the VAS stage + buffer from the Lavardin topology (free of memory distortion) - go to
http://peufeu.free.fr/audio/memory/m...-complete.html
and the output stage accordingly to modify for MOSFETs.
Additional I would specify the buffer for such large idle current, so that the driver transformer input windings can be a lower impedance edition (and consequently the output windings for better drive MOSFETs with large input capacitances).
100-200 mA must be enough so that it is not as extreme as in the thread about
Aleph (Single Ended) + Larvadin (no Memory Distortion) = Ultimate Aleph?
was proposed for an output stage.
A push-pull input stage with 2SJ109/2SK389 I would avoid, because this types don't provide such currents and will be very hard to find in any few years.

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 26th July 2012 at 04:39 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 04:31 PM   #285
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiefbassuebertr View Post
what about the circuits from page 4 of my PDF file (go to first attachment by post #269)?....
that circ is completely traditional - same sex parts driven with opposite phase signals

while Papa's sketch is showing same sex parts driven with identical ( both in amplitude and phase ) signals

they're identical ( accent on amplitude ; phase will stay as is , doesn't matter what you do with amplitude), for now - as long as we can see just simplified sch .
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb ; Papatreasure

Last edited by Zen Mod; 26th July 2012 at 04:38 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 05:02 PM   #286
flg is offline flg  United States
diyAudio Member
 
flg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North East
1 key issue here: looking at ZM's Post #281 schemo's (easier to look at and see what's there) the bottom fet will have gain, the top FET will have practically none (1). If the XFRM'R is equal secondaries, the bottom FET rules!
N.P. has said there is some very symetrical action going on here? I don't see it, except for the transfomer, and that is not even true because they both are driving a different load???
__________________
"It was the perfect high end audio product: Exotic, inefficient, expensive, unavailable, and toxic." N.P.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 05:06 PM   #287
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
nope flg

ignoring biasing details - you'll simply have zero output

both Jfets have same gain , with same polarity , so all which will change is just amount of current going from one side of PSU to other ;

because of unison change of internal resistance of both Jfets , there will be zilch change in DC potential on output node , so no AC

so - working name for F6simp.gif can be Silencer



Teaser above all Teasers !!

(just because we all are so dumb and naive ..... like flies on sticky tape )

it's either like that , or I'm at least Triple Dumb
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb ; Papatreasure

Last edited by Zen Mod; 26th July 2012 at 05:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 05:11 PM   #288
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Blog Entries: 1
what about the circuits from page 4 of my PDF file (go to first attachment by post #269)? [output stage is complementary and is opposed source configuration or common drain; not applicable]
The first schema shows a special OP-AMP "AP12520", the Tango interstage (driver-) transformer N500-30 (2x 500 ohms to 2x30 ohms) and Toshiba MOSFET 2SK1530




These two conditions must exist for a past published reference like F6:
  • The output devices must be connected exactly as shown in the simplified schematic of F6. Thus, the output to the loudspeaker must not be taken from the junction of opposed drains [or bjt collectors], and from the junction of opposed sources [or bjt emitters].
  • The gates [or bjt bases] of the semis must be driven in-phase by matched signals from matched secondary windings of the interstage transformer.
Once this circuit from the past is found, please attach it in a future thread.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 05:32 PM   #289
flg is offline flg  United States
diyAudio Member
 
flg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North East
OK, I went to Pg 4 first schemo: Not applicaple out of phase drive???
second and 3rd schematic: no phase indicators.
What are you trying to say?
__________________
"It was the perfect high end audio product: Exotic, inefficient, expensive, unavailable, and toxic." N.P.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2012, 05:49 PM   #290
www.audiohobby.com
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Blog Entries: 4
Erase the feedback loop and draw the squiggles. Then put the loop back in and draw the squiggles again.

Attachment is for reference.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3ways.jpg (66.6 KB, 479 views)
__________________
I'm not hanging around the forum these days but if you need help: Visit My Website | My YouTube Channel | Email Me | Wheaton's Law |

Last edited by Michael Rothacher; 26th July 2012 at 05:52 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New F6 diy coming soon ? Nounours18200 Pass Labs 37 31st August 2012 04:35 PM
Hi Vi F6 box ioro Multi-Way 4 15th April 2012 08:27 PM
Whats happening with F6? jugoslavija Pass Labs 1 1st November 2011 07:39 AM
Hi-Vi F6 kkosiba Multi-Way 14 9th November 2007 08:38 AM
F6 traw Pass Labs 7 2nd November 2007 07:09 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2