Burning fossil fuels is a bad thing full stop, PERIOD!
Li-Po cells need a lot of energy to make and most, if not all these cells are made in the dirtiest countries on the planet and, in the case of a Prius, are charged by a fossil fueled energy source.
Obviously these technologies are realy only in their infancies, so theres no real data on what will fail......... if its the tech that keeps things cool ect, your in trouble if your inside the vehicle.
Strangely, the French have closest to the right(ish) idea. Most French electric is atomic (we Brits buy French elec) and Renault (maybe other marques) sell elec cars - park in the right kinda parking bay, put yer euro's in the meter, plug your car in and go shop/work whatever.
The next big leap in electric automotive will be KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System)
Kinetic energy recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Slighty more reliable than a choco fry pan, at the going rate it will probably be reliable main stream tech with in 15yrs.
I think 'we' need to develop vision and a comprehension that goes slightly further than the end of our noses if 'we' are to leave the planet in a fit state for the young'uns.
As for the economy of ships - what about the last 50yrs of the old dirty tech?
Gotta face up to it some time, it all has an impact Lazybutt.
Li-Po cells need a lot of energy to make and most, if not all these cells are made in the dirtiest countries on the planet and, in the case of a Prius, are charged by a fossil fueled energy source.
Obviously these technologies are realy only in their infancies, so theres no real data on what will fail......... if its the tech that keeps things cool ect, your in trouble if your inside the vehicle.
Strangely, the French have closest to the right(ish) idea. Most French electric is atomic (we Brits buy French elec) and Renault (maybe other marques) sell elec cars - park in the right kinda parking bay, put yer euro's in the meter, plug your car in and go shop/work whatever.
The next big leap in electric automotive will be KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System)
Kinetic energy recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Slighty more reliable than a choco fry pan, at the going rate it will probably be reliable main stream tech with in 15yrs.
I think 'we' need to develop vision and a comprehension that goes slightly further than the end of our noses if 'we' are to leave the planet in a fit state for the young'uns.
As for the economy of ships - what about the last 50yrs of the old dirty tech?
Gotta face up to it some time, it all has an impact Lazybutt.
“Perhaps”? Can there be any doubt that every one of us needs to be as hugely green as possible-and that waiting for the next generation-with today’s coastal inhabitants now facing ever more hazardous flooding from polar ice loss-is no less than self-destructive lunacy. It's been predicted that in less than 100 years, Long Island, where I live, will be underwater. I'll likely be dust in the ground in far less time but I happen to love what's left to love of this planet. Trees are way prettier and smell better than plastic, don’t you agree Jacco? They also help purify air-let alone converting the CO2 warming gas that humans and animals output into O2), attenuate ear hair cell killing traffic SPLs along highways and prevent topsoil erosion that otherwise causes everything from crop loss to mudslides.
Of course, human overpopulation (another 1 billion in just the last ten years) are making all measures to reverse polar ice and tree loss next to hopeless. Despite all manner of improved technologies, there's simply no way that more people are going to pollute less, consume less finite resources and cause less global warming. Shows often aired on the Discovery channel argue that efforts to save this planet from human-induced destruction are absurd since asteroid deflectors are all but essentially pitiful against the hundreds of Manhattan island-sized rocks poised to strike us over the next millennium and that if offshore and expanded land based oil drilling do raise the risk of tsunamis, that exploding human population growth rates has made all such potential risks unavoidable. The logic, I presume, is continued wholesale super-exploitation of earth's every consumable resource, since governments and corporations will mandate extraterrestrial immigration as the inevitable future-no matter what.
But I can only do what one person can do for protecting this fragile world from human greed and ego-driven excesses. I am a passionate audiophile-would I be chatting with other such fanatics and lusting after the XA30.5, a stunning pair of speakers and remote controlled DAC of equal or greater price if it wasn't? But I am also a committed environmentalist (sadly my two beautiful nieces couldn't care less about any of it. So much for the green-minded next generation).
So while AudioSan and Digital Junkie can only suggest ratty sounding Class D amps and sippy lives in fear of a "Class A tax", my googling turned up this solar electric making/storing idea:
CONTACT INFO Michael, 1-888-701-0566, said he’d sell me a complete 280 watt system (including two 140 watt panels, two batteries, inverter, charge controller, y-cable, panel mounts, etc) giving you guaranteed 265 watt output for $1300. + free shipping. Said the two batts (a forklift load of batts, sippy??) are 3600 watthour types, so even if I run the XA30.5 two hours a night + the first warm up hour (for best sound), I’ll never have a power failure before the panels charge up the batts. The inverter is a Samlex model SAMPST-1000W, made for VCR and home electronics use, so the sine wave distortion should be low.
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OK OK you win. The Prius is EVIL. Burning Coal and Fuel is nice. Those SUVs are so much better because they're made locally. Ho... and the iron and steel that make them up have probably not travelled half way around the globe (they're probably extracted in a mine close to Detroit, and smelted with pure green technology).
Cheers
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I think tree huggers in the North Americas must be truly motivated folks.
The kWhr rate here does 2.5 times the average in the US or Canada.
At 3.5 times in Germany and Denmark, not hard to imagine why energy awareness is relatively popular there.
Same with gas, premium hit the $10/gal mark overhere this weekend, diesel is at $8/gal.
A US gallon is 3.785 liter (rounded off) btw, Sippy's mpg numbers have to be reduced by 10%.
My annual natural gas consumption for heating went down from 11.000m3 (~7.5 times that of an average family here), to 4.500m3 last year.
Same same for the electricity bill ; less lights on, everything off inside/outside at night, LED lamps where it saves most.
Not that it matters a lot, half of my neighbors drive A8/X6/Jag XJ/ Panameras/Continental GT's and live on +1 acre estates, which are front-to-back lit all night.
I compensate by burning multiple tons of marine gas oil each year, but it's low sulphur grade, hey !
Pardon me please, but I believe I was the one to think 23mpg was efficient.
Don't blame someone else for my lack of knowlage.
As far as keeping a low profile.... I try to unless I have a question. Then I ask. I find that the best way to learn, for me.
Its very rare on this site to have someone try to be the south end of a north bound mule by putting others down for their thoughts.
you use 7.5x the average family does on heating with a house full of class A amps? are you indoor 'naturalists'?
Sorry I thought the original idea was yours because you quoted the sentence without the quote marks.
Didn't mean to attack you, and I reckon the sarcasm (on my side) was unnecessary. Sorry
Well, I looked into this a bit further.
For me, living in England, the numerical price, ie just a number, isnt too far off what Oltos quoted.....for me its a little over 1400.
1400 GB Sterling IS NOT 1400 US Dollars - current exchange rate is 1.62 USD to the Sterling, working out to $2268 not including shipping!
My anual electric bill is about £700 or $1053.
Its one of those things, that IF you realy want to spend on this, look at how long its going to take to break even, looking towards multiple uses of this kind of power system will accelerate the B.E. point.
Jacco, yes my figures were 10% high on average, I had a BX TZD and over the 18 months I owned it, it averaged 52mpg combined, I also ran it with a water misting sysem on the intercooler, 70+mpg on the longest runs I did or 42mpg driving like i stole it.
'Class A tax', thats sarcasm, i wouldnt put it past our gov to try to tax these amps at point of sale for burning more than some dreampt up figure thats specified by a technocrat in EU parliment. IF this did come about, I'd play my class A off as a heating source.
Its easy to poo poo what some one says about any subject and have a rant, non of us know how well informed the other is. Thing is with eco, its not just what the end product does, its what it takes to achive the end product as well.
MY personal view is that the puny efforts we humans make to 'save the planet' are gonna come to a big fat zero - the globe is warming of its own accord, just as it has cooled in the past and will continue to do so 'for ever more'.
For me, living in England, the numerical price, ie just a number, isnt too far off what Oltos quoted.....for me its a little over 1400.
1400 GB Sterling IS NOT 1400 US Dollars - current exchange rate is 1.62 USD to the Sterling, working out to $2268 not including shipping!
My anual electric bill is about £700 or $1053.
Its one of those things, that IF you realy want to spend on this, look at how long its going to take to break even, looking towards multiple uses of this kind of power system will accelerate the B.E. point.
Jacco, yes my figures were 10% high on average, I had a BX TZD and over the 18 months I owned it, it averaged 52mpg combined, I also ran it with a water misting sysem on the intercooler, 70+mpg on the longest runs I did or 42mpg driving like i stole it.
'Class A tax', thats sarcasm, i wouldnt put it past our gov to try to tax these amps at point of sale for burning more than some dreampt up figure thats specified by a technocrat in EU parliment. IF this did come about, I'd play my class A off as a heating source.
Its easy to poo poo what some one says about any subject and have a rant, non of us know how well informed the other is. Thing is with eco, its not just what the end product does, its what it takes to achive the end product as well.
MY personal view is that the puny efforts we humans make to 'save the planet' are gonna come to a big fat zero - the globe is warming of its own accord, just as it has cooled in the past and will continue to do so 'for ever more'.
Yup, living on a small island in the Atlantic has its downsides.
Excluding Beef, 90% of the food I consume is imported.
My hifi is British though, orig pair of Quad 2's and a pair of Cyrus 2's.
70% of the electric consumed here is produced / imported a French company called EDF, this has been going on since the early 80's.
And now for 2 facts that will truly play with your mind -
1: Our Government actualy pays for 'wind farms' to NOT produce electric at certain times of the day because 'home grown' costs too much and EDF dont like the loss in revenue. One quoted figure for one farm was £1,200,000 ($1,944,000) a DAY!!!!!
2: Over the last 3yrs, our Gov has given grants to house holds so that they can 'go solar', very late last year/early this, the Gov decided it was going to cut these grants by 35% AND reduce the payment per unit of elec that gets fed back into the grid by a little over 50%. The former because it was costing the gov too much and the latter because the power companies (ie EDF) would loose profit.
We the UK have an energy crisis NOW, not in 'some point in the future'.
Interesting and scary stuff huh?
Excluding Beef, 90% of the food I consume is imported.
My hifi is British though, orig pair of Quad 2's and a pair of Cyrus 2's.
70% of the electric consumed here is produced / imported a French company called EDF, this has been going on since the early 80's.
And now for 2 facts that will truly play with your mind -
1: Our Government actualy pays for 'wind farms' to NOT produce electric at certain times of the day because 'home grown' costs too much and EDF dont like the loss in revenue. One quoted figure for one farm was £1,200,000 ($1,944,000) a DAY!!!!!
2: Over the last 3yrs, our Gov has given grants to house holds so that they can 'go solar', very late last year/early this, the Gov decided it was going to cut these grants by 35% AND reduce the payment per unit of elec that gets fed back into the grid by a little over 50%. The former because it was costing the gov too much and the latter because the power companies (ie EDF) would loose profit.
We the UK have an energy crisis NOW, not in 'some point in the future'.
Interesting and scary stuff huh?
Any more info? I'm trying to achieve grid parity with my solarpanels (without this elusive XA30.5 amp though...). But I NEED my (I didn't even realy swear here: ) *******' pricy fixed cost connection for peaks and nights.
Yes it is. My Prius does 40mpgUS, but in the US many do 50+. My Volvo diesel (auto AWD) struggles to achieve 28mpgUS.
To all you yanks: this is miles per IMPERIAL gallon... But even then I think these numbers are too rosey... For new small to medium class cars maybe, but not for the average car on the road today.
Averaging all miles on the site where I track my mileage, I get 30mpgUS/36mpgIMP. And that's over almost 3 billion miles and 300k cars.
My Volvo is over 1900€ (1500£, 2350$) a year in roadtax. Just writing it down makes me wonder if the safety of my family is indeed worth THAT MUCH...
The lead-acid battery in my Prius is about 5 times smaller than the one in my Volvo. And battery acid is nothing special. As recycling gets better (read: materials get more expensive, hence recycling makes more financial sense), I would worry less and less about this.
The NiMH battery in the Prius is already almost fully recycleable.
Hear, hear.
I always put those yanks in their place when they whine about fuel prices
You must be from the better part of Rotterdam
My neighbours don't have several acres or Jags... BTW, I still have to install the panels I bought last year, used but only 2 weeks old, for about half the new price.
Last week I found several sites where the panels were cheaper. New. Panels are insanely cheap (1.1€ per Watt). Buy a secondhand inverter in Germany, and you can have a return on investment of way under 10 years (thanks to our insane electricity prices). ROI should be even 20% faster, but they changeda variable part of the price of electricity into a fixed part, so you cannot earn that back with every kW you feed back into the grid. I think they did it to mess with people who have solarpanels, but when asked they will undoubtedly give you some other bull, sorry: reason.
Ahhh, venting always helps.
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In an interview, the answer was 2-3 years till they're available.
Panels will be more expensive, as the article mentions, but with write-off included lower kWhr cost than the GEB-pretender rates.
(me just switched supplier sides again, ditched the tiresome dual day/night meter, lower average rates for both G&E, 3-year fixed, $2K/yr saved)
Just under R'dam is Rockangeé á la Küte, the better part.
If you feel a burning desire to goggle earth an indoor/outdoor exhibitionist from above : 3235CD
OK, there's some Jags there...
. I'm in R'burg.More efficient panels would be great. I strive for grid parity (not sure if it is the correct term, but I aim to produce the same amount as I use). For this I have 5kW yet to be placed, but my roof will only have space for about 3kW. The rest will be fitted on a shed, where I might get into trouble with local authorities and 'welstands'commities
We'll cross that bridge...
And if by some unforeseen coincidence I produce too much, then the gas-stove is thrown out for an electrical one, or some plug-in batteries will be added to the Prius.
Jacco,
Brittish snail is now mostly owned by Mr.Branson / Virgin Travel. No doubt there is a connection to China in the mix.
Ric-Paul, my friend Ben runs lead acid cells, 2v 70-100Ah (2 seperate banks), a large converter, charging elements consist of a 2Kw panel and 3wind turbines salvaged from scrap yards (origionaly intended for gin palaces), zero mains feed, all lighting in his dwelling is 12v, central heating is pumped at 12v, water heated by solar (own desighn pannels) or his own desighn back boilered stove. Only his workshop and computer utilise the converter system and anything more than his 1 1/2hp pillar drill/small chop saw and a few other workshop tools cant cope with he goes to his parents, who have a fully equipped wood and metal shop.
I saw him this morning while doing my banking in town and his answer to 'would you consider writing down the specs' was 'Look on the internet'.........
He's a remarkable chap, but unfortunatly he's also a modern day hermit in extremis - turn up at his abode without prior notice or invite and you will be confronted by a 12g shotgun loaded with salt.
Your mpg quotes for YOUR Prius are very good - but then you live in an area thats flat. I live in Cornwall, down in the south west of england, a very small county, where we have hills, lots of em, 1 in 5/4/3 and even 'hors catagoir' (sp), Former neighbours chopped in their Honda Jazz for a Prius and 8 months later got rid of it. Why? Most of the time it was running as a petrol car. Their former Jazz would average 45mpg, Prius 22 - 23mpg. They quizzed me about my BX several times and ended up buying a Jazz diesel.
And it depends on how you drive. My parents have a Peugot 308 1.6hdi and a 4007 2.2hdi, both 3yrs old. Step-dad gets 38 - 42mpg localy, Mother gets 50mpg consistantly from the 308 but interestingly both get 37mpg from the 4007. One uses the lead foor/lazy gearchange method and the other uses the gears/exelent pedal modulation.
Me, my mother taught me to drive while living as a very low income single parent family, so I got the hang of economy 20+ yrs ago. All these figures are meaningless compared to my modern road race bicycles, with their carbon frames, deep section aero rims, Ti/ceramic bearings and tubular tires inflated to 100 - 135psi. 90% of every watt at my pedals gets to the rear wheel and my only emissions are snot, sweat, the odd expulsion of gas and heaps of swear words at blind ignorant arrogant motorists.
Brittish snail is now mostly owned by Mr.Branson / Virgin Travel. No doubt there is a connection to China in the mix.
Ric-Paul, my friend Ben runs lead acid cells, 2v 70-100Ah (2 seperate banks), a large converter, charging elements consist of a 2Kw panel and 3wind turbines salvaged from scrap yards (origionaly intended for gin palaces), zero mains feed, all lighting in his dwelling is 12v, central heating is pumped at 12v, water heated by solar (own desighn pannels) or his own desighn back boilered stove. Only his workshop and computer utilise the converter system and anything more than his 1 1/2hp pillar drill/small chop saw and a few other workshop tools cant cope with he goes to his parents, who have a fully equipped wood and metal shop.
I saw him this morning while doing my banking in town and his answer to 'would you consider writing down the specs' was 'Look on the internet'.........
He's a remarkable chap, but unfortunatly he's also a modern day hermit in extremis - turn up at his abode without prior notice or invite and you will be confronted by a 12g shotgun loaded with salt.
Your mpg quotes for YOUR Prius are very good - but then you live in an area thats flat. I live in Cornwall, down in the south west of england, a very small county, where we have hills, lots of em, 1 in 5/4/3 and even 'hors catagoir' (sp), Former neighbours chopped in their Honda Jazz for a Prius and 8 months later got rid of it. Why? Most of the time it was running as a petrol car. Their former Jazz would average 45mpg, Prius 22 - 23mpg. They quizzed me about my BX several times and ended up buying a Jazz diesel.
And it depends on how you drive. My parents have a Peugot 308 1.6hdi and a 4007 2.2hdi, both 3yrs old. Step-dad gets 38 - 42mpg localy, Mother gets 50mpg consistantly from the 308 but interestingly both get 37mpg from the 4007. One uses the lead foor/lazy gearchange method and the other uses the gears/exelent pedal modulation.
Me, my mother taught me to drive while living as a very low income single parent family, so I got the hang of economy 20+ yrs ago. All these figures are meaningless compared to my modern road race bicycles, with their carbon frames, deep section aero rims, Ti/ceramic bearings and tubular tires inflated to 100 - 135psi. 90% of every watt at my pedals gets to the rear wheel and my only emissions are snot, sweat, the odd expulsion of gas and heaps of swear words at blind ignorant arrogant motorists.
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