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Old 24th April 2012, 02:25 PM   #51
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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Well, I looked into this a bit further.
For me, living in England, the numerical price, ie just a number, isnt too far off what Oltos quoted.....for me its a little over 1400.
1400 GB Sterling IS NOT 1400 US Dollars - current exchange rate is 1.62 USD to the Sterling, working out to $2268 not including shipping!
My anual electric bill is about £700 or $1053.
Its one of those things, that IF you realy want to spend on this, look at how long its going to take to break even, looking towards multiple uses of this kind of power system will accelerate the B.E. point.
Jacco, yes my figures were 10% high on average, I had a BX TZD and over the 18 months I owned it, it averaged 52mpg combined, I also ran it with a water misting sysem on the intercooler, 70+mpg on the longest runs I did or 42mpg driving like i stole it.
'Class A tax', thats sarcasm, i wouldnt put it past our gov to try to tax these amps at point of sale for burning more than some dreampt up figure thats specified by a technocrat in EU parliment. IF this did come about, I'd play my class A off as a heating source.
Its easy to poo poo what some one says about any subject and have a rant, non of us know how well informed the other is. Thing is with eco, its not just what the end product does, its what it takes to achive the end product as well.
MY personal view is that the puny efforts we humans make to 'save the planet' are gonna come to a big fat zero - the globe is warming of its own accord, just as it has cooled in the past and will continue to do so 'for ever more'.
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Old 24th April 2012, 02:41 PM   #52
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Wow. That's allot.
But "green" energy seems to be pricey still. Its still a baby.
I just use mine in the winter. Keeps gas costs down. And my upstairs warm.
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Old 24th April 2012, 06:10 PM   #53
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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Yup, living on a small island in the Atlantic has its downsides.
Excluding Beef, 90% of the food I consume is imported.
My hifi is British though, orig pair of Quad 2's and a pair of Cyrus 2's.
70% of the electric consumed here is produced / imported a French company called EDF, this has been going on since the early 80's.
And now for 2 facts that will truly play with your mind -
1: Our Government actualy pays for 'wind farms' to NOT produce electric at certain times of the day because 'home grown' costs too much and EDF dont like the loss in revenue. One quoted figure for one farm was £1,200,000 ($1,944,000) a DAY!!!!!
2: Over the last 3yrs, our Gov has given grants to house holds so that they can 'go solar', very late last year/early this, the Gov decided it was going to cut these grants by 35% AND reduce the payment per unit of elec that gets fed back into the grid by a little over 50%. The former because it was costing the gov too much and the latter because the power companies (ie EDF) would loose profit.
We the UK have an energy crisis NOW, not in 'some point in the future'.
Interesting and scary stuff huh?
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Old 24th April 2012, 06:27 PM   #54
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Actually, EDF owns the energy, but the distribution networks are Hong Kong property.
Isn't privatisation grand ?

(next thing you know, good ol' British Rail will be under Beijing management)
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Last edited by jacco vermeulen; 24th April 2012 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 24th April 2012, 07:27 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sippy View Post
Interesting link Jacco.
One of my friends is totaly off the grid here in the uk Luke, he gets round the high current draw problem by using good old-fashioned fire......
Any more info? I'm trying to achieve grid parity with my solarpanels (without this elusive XA30.5 amp though...). But I NEED my (I didn't even realy swear here: ) *******' pricy fixed cost connection for peaks and nights.

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Originally Posted by sakellogg View Post
Are our cars that bad realy? What kinda MPG is average in europe?
Like our suv gets 18mpg-ish. Is that bad there?
Yes it is. My Prius does 40mpgUS, but in the US many do 50+. My Volvo diesel (auto AWD) struggles to achieve 28mpgUS.

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Originally Posted by sippy View Post
petrol cars average 45mpg here, deisels get close to 55mpg average.
To all you yanks: this is miles per IMPERIAL gallon... But even then I think these numbers are too rosey... For new small to medium class cars maybe, but not for the average car on the road today.
Averaging all miles on the site where I track my mileage, I get 30mpgUS/36mpgIMP. And that's over almost 3 billion miles and 300k cars.

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Originally Posted by sippy View Post
Oh, and we pay a tax to drive our cars on the road - V8 Range Rover (prolly a dinky toy in the usa) costs £450 ($720) per year, factor in 15mpg.........
you'll get the idea.
My Volvo is over 1900€ (1500£, 2350$) a year in roadtax. Just writing it down makes me wonder if the safety of my family is indeed worth THAT MUCH...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke View Post
What are we going to do with the battery acid,.
The lead-acid battery in my Prius is about 5 times smaller than the one in my Volvo. And battery acid is nothing special. As recycling gets better (read: materials get more expensive, hence recycling makes more financial sense), I would worry less and less about this.
The NiMH battery in the Prius is already almost fully recycleable.

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Originally Posted by oltos View Post
...Can there be any doubt that every one of us needs to be as hugely green as possible...
Of course, human overpopulation (another 1 billion in just the last ten years) are making all measures to reverse polar ice and tree loss next to hopeless. ....
.
Hear, hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
I think tree huggers in the North Americas must be truly motivated folks.
The kWhr rate here does 2.5 times the average in the US or Canada.
At 3.5 times in Germany and Denmark, not hard to imagine why energy awareness is relatively popular there.

Same with gas, premium hit the $10/gal mark overhere this weekend, diesel is at $8/gal.
A US gallon is 3.785 liter (rounded off) btw, Sippy's mpg numbers have to be reduced by 10%.
I always put those yanks in their place when they whine about fuel prices
You must be from the better part of Rotterdam My neighbours don't have several acres or Jags...


BTW, I still have to install the panels I bought last year, used but only 2 weeks old, for about half the new price.
Last week I found several sites where the panels were cheaper. New. Panels are insanely cheap (1.1€ per Watt). Buy a secondhand inverter in Germany, and you can have a return on investment of way under 10 years (thanks to our insane electricity prices). ROI should be even 20% faster, but they changeda variable part of the price of electricity into a fixed part, so you cannot earn that back with every kW you feed back into the grid. I think they did it to mess with people who have solarpanels, but when asked they will undoubtedly give you some other bull, sorry: reason.


Ahhh, venting always helps.

Last edited by ric-paul; 24th April 2012 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 24th April 2012, 08:30 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ric-paul View Post
Any more info? the better part of Rotterdam
In an interview, the answer was 2-3 years till they're available.
Panels will be more expensive, as the article mentions, but with write-off included lower kWhr cost than the GEB-pretender rates.
(me just switched supplier sides again, ditched the tiresome dual day/night meter, lower average rates for both G&E, 3-year fixed, $2K/yr saved)

Just under R'dam is Rockangeé á la Küte, the better part.
If you feel a burning desire to goggle earth an indoor/outdoor exhibitionist from above : 3235CD
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Old 25th April 2012, 07:51 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
Just under R'dam is Rockangeé á la Küte, the better part.
OK, there's some Jags there... . I'm in R'burg.

More efficient panels would be great. I strive for grid parity (not sure if it is the correct term, but I aim to produce the same amount as I use). For this I have 5kW yet to be placed, but my roof will only have space for about 3kW. The rest will be fitted on a shed, where I might get into trouble with local authorities and 'welstands'commities
We'll cross that bridge...

And if by some unforeseen coincidence I produce too much, then the gas-stove is thrown out for an electrical one, or some plug-in batteries will be added to the Prius.
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Old 25th April 2012, 05:04 PM   #58
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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Jacco,
Brittish snail is now mostly owned by Mr.Branson / Virgin Travel. No doubt there is a connection to China in the mix.

Ric-Paul, my friend Ben runs lead acid cells, 2v 70-100Ah (2 seperate banks), a large converter, charging elements consist of a 2Kw panel and 3wind turbines salvaged from scrap yards (origionaly intended for gin palaces), zero mains feed, all lighting in his dwelling is 12v, central heating is pumped at 12v, water heated by solar (own desighn pannels) or his own desighn back boilered stove. Only his workshop and computer utilise the converter system and anything more than his 1 1/2hp pillar drill/small chop saw and a few other workshop tools cant cope with he goes to his parents, who have a fully equipped wood and metal shop.
I saw him this morning while doing my banking in town and his answer to 'would you consider writing down the specs' was 'Look on the internet'.........
He's a remarkable chap, but unfortunatly he's also a modern day hermit in extremis - turn up at his abode without prior notice or invite and you will be confronted by a 12g shotgun loaded with salt.
Your mpg quotes for YOUR Prius are very good - but then you live in an area thats flat. I live in Cornwall, down in the south west of england, a very small county, where we have hills, lots of em, 1 in 5/4/3 and even 'hors catagoir' (sp), Former neighbours chopped in their Honda Jazz for a Prius and 8 months later got rid of it. Why? Most of the time it was running as a petrol car. Their former Jazz would average 45mpg, Prius 22 - 23mpg. They quizzed me about my BX several times and ended up buying a Jazz diesel.
And it depends on how you drive. My parents have a Peugot 308 1.6hdi and a 4007 2.2hdi, both 3yrs old. Step-dad gets 38 - 42mpg localy, Mother gets 50mpg consistantly from the 308 but interestingly both get 37mpg from the 4007. One uses the lead foor/lazy gearchange method and the other uses the gears/exelent pedal modulation.
Me, my mother taught me to drive while living as a very low income single parent family, so I got the hang of economy 20+ yrs ago. All these figures are meaningless compared to my modern road race bicycles, with their carbon frames, deep section aero rims, Ti/ceramic bearings and tubular tires inflated to 100 - 135psi. 90% of every watt at my pedals gets to the rear wheel and my only emissions are snot, sweat, the odd expulsion of gas and heaps of swear words at blind ignorant arrogant motorists.
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