I've already notified Pass Labs and I'm doing the honorable thing. I'm letting them decide whether or not it's worth pursuing.
Regards,
Dan
Wow. What a tough call. That is an awesome looking case and it took a lot of hard work to make it look that way. On both sides.
Now, you also have to look at the audience, who you are selling to. There are a lot of discerning types out there in the Audio community who are tough to hoodwink. When someone is buying a high priced Nelson Pass Amp, they have the money to do so, they WANT a Nelson Pass Amp, and are probably more careful than when they are buying t-shirts.
I don't condone this copycatting, but happens and yes it does suck.
Unless it has Nelson Pass written all over it, it might be fair game looks wise -- OP did mention only the cases. Not sure if you can patent a case unless it was novel and unique. I think that the whole package on how it work as a unit can be protected. You can copyright the image though. But it means money.
The old company I used to work for had the same issue with a look of a machine they had (sorry still confidential, but the mechanicals and engineering were definitely unique). I am pretty sure that you would have to trademark/copyright the image for it to hold, so no others can use the image or "look". Then that copyright (for argument's sake, assume Nelson Pass Inc. and company were US based) would have to extend out past all these borders, internationally if the case manufacturer were not North American based.
The manufacturer I worked for had all the patents and copyrights to the images, he decided against chasing someones tail because of the financial costs to go after one guy/jerk. He just went on about business with an information campaign instead. Yes, buy ours because it is the real one with the real guts and support. It works like it should. It seems to have worked better. That and he got the other guy/jerk shut out of EVERY SINGLE tradeshow for a couple of years with the help of faxes, lawyers, and threat of legal action against the tradeshow organizers (now that was funny, the copycatters ship a huge crate to various European tradeshows and either it had to stay packed, or had to be removed or tarp covered, the booth draped or empty, and their salesman's presence and handouts were not allowed).
You'd have to see if it were worth pursuing and unless the manufacturer was plastering Nelson Pass's name or model number all over it, then it would be an argument for the lawyers over the finer details and billable hours.
However, with that said, what the heck are those boards inside the case in the picture?
Now, you also have to look at the audience, who you are selling to. There are a lot of discerning types out there in the Audio community who are tough to hoodwink. When someone is buying a high priced Nelson Pass Amp, they have the money to do so, they WANT a Nelson Pass Amp, and are probably more careful than when they are buying t-shirts.
I don't condone this copycatting, but happens and yes it does suck.
Unless it has Nelson Pass written all over it, it might be fair game looks wise -- OP did mention only the cases. Not sure if you can patent a case unless it was novel and unique. I think that the whole package on how it work as a unit can be protected. You can copyright the image though. But it means money.
The old company I used to work for had the same issue with a look of a machine they had (sorry still confidential, but the mechanicals and engineering were definitely unique). I am pretty sure that you would have to trademark/copyright the image for it to hold, so no others can use the image or "look". Then that copyright (for argument's sake, assume Nelson Pass Inc. and company were US based) would have to extend out past all these borders, internationally if the case manufacturer were not North American based.
The manufacturer I worked for had all the patents and copyrights to the images, he decided against chasing someones tail because of the financial costs to go after one guy/jerk. He just went on about business with an information campaign instead. Yes, buy ours because it is the real one with the real guts and support. It works like it should. It seems to have worked better. That and he got the other guy/jerk shut out of EVERY SINGLE tradeshow for a couple of years with the help of faxes, lawyers, and threat of legal action against the tradeshow organizers (now that was funny, the copycatters ship a huge crate to various European tradeshows and either it had to stay packed, or had to be removed or tarp covered, the booth draped or empty, and their salesman's presence and handouts were not allowed).
You'd have to see if it were worth pursuing and unless the manufacturer was plastering Nelson Pass's name or model number all over it, then it would be an argument for the lawyers over the finer details and billable hours.
However, with that said, what the heck are those boards inside the case in the picture?
To further add, Passlabs.com has the list of patents on their technology right there on the website. If the guts of these clones fall onto those patents, the design is a good body of protected work, you paid for that protection, go after them if their guts can be argued as being copies of the same.
Personally, I'd still love to have a case and heat sinks like the one in the pic for a diy future project, but not someone else's questionable guts (I'll do my own questionable guts myself). But with a different face plate as I wouldn't want to be misrepresenting what I had inside.
Personally, I'd still love to have a case and heat sinks like the one in the pic for a diy future project, but not someone else's questionable guts (I'll do my own questionable guts myself). But with a different face plate as I wouldn't want to be misrepresenting what I had inside.
Dan, what about the boards in there? Just curious about the $1k case... is it with or without boards and what kind of boards are those? Old boards with a current case or current boards with a current case? or just the case for $1k? Don't leave me hanging...
Wow danwomey... that dude you got this info from is ballsy. I thought it was one case, but nopers. Well, at that price versus what the real XA200.5 go for, I would venture a guess that those boards are there for decoration (I hope).
And as katieanddad pointed out, he could easily replace the front panel with something else and really make some diy'ers happy. Heck, I would be happy with the fitted case, custom heatsinks, and matched connectors. Make my own faceplate (send it out) and not masquerade my own sourced and poorly cold-soldered components as a Pass Lab XA200.5.
Well, I hope that this sorts itself out. It is a crappy situation to be in.
Another thought though, if the respectful DIY community stayed away from this offering as it is given (with that unique faceplate), would it be enough to starve out the supplier? To make this thing fly, the seller would need to make and sell a large bunch of these, to be economically feasible. Otherwise he'd have to abandon the venture.
There are two basic flavors of patents...utility patents and design patents, utlility patents have to be novel, unique, non-obvious, etc.
Patenting how something works is covered in a utility patent, usually with device claims and method claims.
Patenting how something looks is done with a design patent (think designer sunglasses, etc); these patents numbers (in the US) start with the letter "D" ie DXXXXX
Face plates aren't difficult to produce. But they can be expensive.
I guess that Nelson would be upset that his innovative artwork is being cloned, ie in contrevention of his copywright.
Anyone could come up with a unique design that any CNC equipped workshop would be happy to produce. I think that $1K is RIDICULOUS. At the most you are looking at £240 GBP in heatsinks (and thats being conservative) and about £100 GBP in alluminium plate, pre-cut, to make the chassis. You might then spend £100 - £200 on the front panel. £540 GBP and that is for a ONE OFF unique design.
If someone is offering to make 100 of the things the costs reduce rapidly.
Looks like someone is trying to profiteer on the Pass design.
I guess that Nelson would be upset that his innovative artwork is being cloned, ie in contrevention of his copywright.
Anyone could come up with a unique design that any CNC equipped workshop would be happy to produce. I think that $1K is RIDICULOUS. At the most you are looking at £240 GBP in heatsinks (and thats being conservative) and about £100 GBP in alluminium plate, pre-cut, to make the chassis. You might then spend £100 - £200 on the front panel. £540 GBP and that is for a ONE OFF unique design.
If someone is offering to make 100 of the things the costs reduce rapidly.
Looks like someone is trying to profiteer on the Pass design.
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