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Old 1st April 2012, 03:50 PM   #1281
Rush is offline Rush  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horio View Post
My experience has been that the cost of having a shop drill/tap blind holes into heatsinks is mostly driven by the setup costs. Adding a few more holes is not a very significant expense (at least at the shop I used).
Yea, but we would still have to do ourselves or pay again to have someone drill and tap blind holes for the diodes, so if the setup charge is the culprit, we still incur the cost and have annoying holes we will not use. (annoying because they may get under something or be too close to something.)
Am I being negative? Don't mean to be, just need to think this through.

Rush
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Old 1st April 2012, 03:53 PM   #1282
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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nothing wrong with few redundant holes , even ditto under the output mosfet

this is no nuclear physics ......... just plain amp building
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Old 1st April 2012, 04:15 PM   #1283
Rush is offline Rush  United States
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Originally Posted by Zen Mod View Post
nothing wrong with few redundant holes , even ditto under the output mosfet

this is no nuclear physics ......... just plain amp building
This may be plain amp building to the elite brainiac mechanical folks like you, but to me and a few others, this is the pinnacle of our abilities and we think of ourselves as scientist of the backward kind (cave men with drills), aiming to not make a mess of expensive parts.
I see some exquisite scratch builds in the photos section and I struggle with the mechanics of chassis building from scratch. I usually build from the wreckage of other manufactures. (I have 2 dead Nakamichi PA-7, gutted and one ready for building, probably not suited for F5 turbo, but one is a F5 and runs pretty cool.)
So seems like nuclear physics to me.

Rush
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Old 1st April 2012, 06:56 PM   #1284
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Rush

1. Well I don't think I did ignore the the diode locations- Each board has 2 MOSFETS and 2 Diodes. That's the whole idea. The entire point. It seems that your design is very adaptable to this UMS hole standard from your photos.


3. There was already the "slew of holes" in the Standard, so these proposed boards work with the existing holes in a smaller chassis. The longer chassis' would have 4 extra holes total. One realization I had was that a longer chassis need more holes. Please look again at the UMS Hole Standard loaded on this post:

F5 Turbo Circuit Boards

The plan is for every chassis to have this layout of holes. Note how it works for EVERY amp in the Store. (I'm especially proud of the way the EUVL boards it. We worked this solution out together- Thanks EUVL!
Our GREATEST hope is that when members design boards, that they use the existing Standard Holes so that boards can be swapped in and out of the chassis for updates, no drilling or tapping.. or if you have a Test Mule chassis, or whatever. The cost? its not cheap, to have the holes, but its true- a couple more or less hardly affects the price.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush View Post
You have ignored the diode location for the Turbo, stilled drilled and tab a slew of holes that has to increase cost of the heatsink.
I am starting to think a couple of copper spreader bars with standard 1/4" mounting holes on the heatsink is going to be better (not cheaper) in the long run. It is relatively easy to drill and tap a 1/4" or 3/8" thick piece of metal, without any blind holes. Us Turbo guys still have to drill and tap the diode locations (same number of diode holes as mosfet holes.) If the chassis company could give a price for including spreader bars, it may be a good alternative.
Still need a standard for the spreader bars, but I am sure someone can figure that out.

Rush

Last edited by Variac; 1st April 2012 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 1st April 2012, 07:12 PM   #1285
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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It may be need more work , but I've agonized over the UMS (Hole Standard) for hours and hours! How else could we get all the different amps in the store to work together? Its also the culmination of an effort from the V2.0 on to have all store amp boards marked V2.0 or later work with the UMS.

If you're drilling and tapping your own holes, no need to drill all the Standard Holes- but it might be smart! Any design needs quite a few holes anyway as you've pointed out. We're really not talking about many "extra holes" Even if the boards were one per side instead of two , we'll need most of the holes.

If you're designing boards for yourself and your friends, we hope you will consider the UMS also, easier for everyone..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush View Post
Yea, but we would still have to do ourselves or pay again to have someone drill and tap blind holes for the diodes, so if the setup charge is the culprit, we still incur the cost and have annoying holes we will not use. (annoying because they may get under something or be too close to something.)
Am I being negative? Don't mean to be, just need to think this through.

Rush

Last edited by Variac; 1st April 2012 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 1st April 2012, 07:21 PM   #1286
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Here's how we did the Burning Amp output boards:

http://www.diyaudio.com/store/usa/me...-baco-2v20.png

I'm proposing a shorter board that is very similar as far as the end hookup holes. We can't use these actual boards because there's no diodes and its a "follower" output design..

Please note the row of wiring holes on the ends of the board. EACH end. Then the boards can be linked together with jumpers. This is very versatile as the boards can have wires from the input board attached on the end whether they are mounted on the left or right. And of course that makes it very easy to link to a second board so you can then have 2 boards on each side, Two shorter boards allows us to have the MOSFETS/diodes spread WAY apart on the Big "A" (400mm deep) Chassis and to use just one board on the Jack Chassis( 300mm)

Please Take a look here at the proposed diyAudio Chassis:

The diyAudio Store (USA) soon to stock chassis – requesting your feedback!

Last edited by Variac; 1st April 2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 1st April 2012, 08:09 PM   #1287
Rush is offline Rush  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Variac View Post
Rush

1. Well I don't think I did ignore the the diode locations- Each board has 2 MOSFETS and 2 Diodes. That's the whole idea. The entire point.


3. There was already the "slew of holes" in the Standard, so it works with the existing holes. The smaller chassis would have the same holes as we have already proposed in the Standard. The longer chassis' would have 4 extra holes total. One realization I had was that a longer chassis need more holes. Please look again at the Standard loaded on this post:

F5 Turbo Circuit Boards

The plan is for every chassis to have this layout of holes. Note how it works for EVERY amp in the Store. (I'm especially proud of the way the EUVL boards it. We worked this solution out together- Thanks EUVL!
Our GREATEST hope is that when members design boards, that they use the existing Standard Holes so that boards can be swapped in and out of the chassis for updates, no drilling or tapping.. or if you have a Test Mule chassis, or whatever. The cost? its not cheap, to have the holes but its true- a couple more or less hardly affects the price.
OK, I reread your attachment and see that you are designing for V3 type boards. I am only looking for V2 board solutions at this time.
Your concept is the right way to go, I didn't realize your are way down that path judging from the new thread about DIYAUDIO's store chassis offering.

Good luck and I hope Toecutter can accommodate the hole design.
I am rather stuck with prototype boards that I fully intend to fire-up! (Hope that is just a figure of speech!)

Rush
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Old 1st April 2012, 08:48 PM   #1288
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Projects such as yours don't need to of course. But if a person is designing with a Group Buy in mind, then using the UMS is good to use as they can just bolt them into a chassis they may have already made or bought.

The idea is that there is a HUGE amount of heat being produced here.
So I thought about what chassis would actually work with what.
I believe this approach will work for V2 or V3. Here's my thoughts:

For a V2, a 300mm deep chassis isn't big enough to cool 2 V2 channels, let alone any V3
So if you want to use a smaller chassis, the only way would be a monoblock. You would then have a single board on each side, one "n" channel board with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes, the other side "p" channel board with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes. Creating one channel of a V2

For a single chassis V2, a 400mm deep chassis is going to be required to dissipate the heat. Probably it can handle 2 channels of V2 one channel per side. So since its longer you can fit two boards on each side, one "n" channel board with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes, the other side "p" channel board with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes. Creating one channel of a V2 on each side.

For a V3, I would think a 400mm deep chassis is going to be required to dissipate the heat. Probably it can handle one channel of V3 so it will be a monoblock. Since its longer you can fit two boards on each side, one "n" channel board with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes and one "p" channel board with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes. Creating one channel of a V3 per chassis.

For a V3, and a 400mm deep chassis you could also fit two "n" channel boards with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes each on one side and and two "p" channel boards with 2 MOSFETS and 2 diodes each on the other side if there is some advantage to this. The wiring would be neater but not sure about the theoretical advantages. This would also create one channel of a V3 per chassis.


Well it took me a while to realize that everyone doesn't know about the UMS OR about the drilled chassis' being offered soon. We are at a crucial point where we REALLY need to have all boards offered in the store meet the UMS. But also I think that, that prototypes or boards offered in Group Buys could use the UMS too, if it isn't too limiting somehow.

Last edited by Variac; 1st April 2012 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 1st April 2012, 09:08 PM   #1289
Rush is offline Rush  United States
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Originally Posted by Variac View Post
The idea is that there is a HUGE amount of heat being produced here. in the

Well it took me a while to realize that everyone doesn't know about the UMS OR about the drilled chassis' being offered soon. We are at a crucial point where we REALLY need to have boards offered in the store meet the UMS. But also I think that, that prototypes or boards offered in Group Buys could use the UMS too, if it isn't too limiting somehow.

Now projects such as yours don't need to of course, but more members might use them if they can just bolt them into a chassis they may have already made or bought.
Where were you a month ago? (And I mean offering not designing.)
I have bought the expensive stuff and must use it or store it with every other half completed/stripped for a new project pile of aluminum that my wife thinks is junk. (Ever seen hoarders, the TV show?)

Rush
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Old 1st April 2012, 09:21 PM   #1290
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by Zen Mod View Post
nothing wrong with few redundant holes , even ditto under the output mosfet

this is no nuclear physics ......... just plain amp building
What if the amp goes nuclear and let the smoke out .....
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