I finished my F4 a couple of weekends ago, and I've had some time to listen and thought I might share a few impressions.
First my system:
The room is fairly large: perhaps about 20x20 (not actually square) with a pitched ceiling, and hardwood suspended floors and pine board ceiling.
Over the years I've tried a number of different amplifiers, from a Quad 303 to ATI, and an Audio Research D70. The Music Reference has been the best, despite a touch of hum and a penchant for blowing fuses.
The F4 is, in a word, better. The main differences I'm hearing are much more powerful bass, which I assume comes from the current capability of the F4, and a delightful clarity in the top end.
The differences are most obvious with well-recorded, relatively simple music, like John Denver, Lee Konitz (vinyl), Muddy Waters, and the King's Singers. This kind of music is simply much more compelling to listen to: more dynamic, more interesting, and more informative.
I've been having trouble with complex orchestral scores, however. Often complex music just seemed a bit messy. But this leads to the other sense in which the F4 is a revelation. It really tells me what's on the recording, and sometimes that's not great. John Williams, for example, seems to record bass-heavy, and sure enough, he's pretty bass heavy on the F4. So I started to search for good orchestral recordings, and on the train the other day I was listening to the opening of Solti's Walkure (no, not on my F4...). I was struck by the smoothness of the orchestra, so that evening, I put on the CD (yes, with the F4 this time). A revelation again. Beautiful, velvety cellos and basses, sonorous brass, clear voices. I couldn't stop listening. All is forgiven.
So I'm super-happy with the F4. I am not so happy with some of my recordings, but perhaps one day I'll be able to upgrade them as well. In the meantime, I know the system is not the problem, and in particular the amp and speaker combination seems synergistic. Imaging is amazing, and I get enough volume not to replace dusting the furniture, but to irritate my family, and certainly more than is required for realistic levels.
So thanks again to Nelson and the diyaudio community who made this possible.
tim
First my system:
- Townshend Rock III turntable with Rega 3 arm modified: Cardas litz wire, and Origin Live upgrades to the back end. Cartridge is a Grado Z1+.
- Phono stage is an EAR 834P.
- CD Player is a Naim CD5i.
- Preamp is an Audio Research LS3
- Cables are a mix of homebrew silver cables, MIT, and the phono low level cables are by Origin Live.
- Speakers are homebrew Pi Sevens.
The room is fairly large: perhaps about 20x20 (not actually square) with a pitched ceiling, and hardwood suspended floors and pine board ceiling.
Over the years I've tried a number of different amplifiers, from a Quad 303 to ATI, and an Audio Research D70. The Music Reference has been the best, despite a touch of hum and a penchant for blowing fuses.
The F4 is, in a word, better. The main differences I'm hearing are much more powerful bass, which I assume comes from the current capability of the F4, and a delightful clarity in the top end.
The differences are most obvious with well-recorded, relatively simple music, like John Denver, Lee Konitz (vinyl), Muddy Waters, and the King's Singers. This kind of music is simply much more compelling to listen to: more dynamic, more interesting, and more informative.
I've been having trouble with complex orchestral scores, however. Often complex music just seemed a bit messy. But this leads to the other sense in which the F4 is a revelation. It really tells me what's on the recording, and sometimes that's not great. John Williams, for example, seems to record bass-heavy, and sure enough, he's pretty bass heavy on the F4. So I started to search for good orchestral recordings, and on the train the other day I was listening to the opening of Solti's Walkure (no, not on my F4...). I was struck by the smoothness of the orchestra, so that evening, I put on the CD (yes, with the F4 this time). A revelation again. Beautiful, velvety cellos and basses, sonorous brass, clear voices. I couldn't stop listening. All is forgiven.
So I'm super-happy with the F4. I am not so happy with some of my recordings, but perhaps one day I'll be able to upgrade them as well. In the meantime, I know the system is not the problem, and in particular the amp and speaker combination seems synergistic. Imaging is amazing, and I get enough volume not to replace dusting the furniture, but to irritate my family, and certainly more than is required for realistic levels.
So thanks again to Nelson and the diyaudio community who made this possible.
tim
I meant the Australian singer, John Williamson - sorry! If you don't know him, look for "Chandelier of Stars". He's best known for a song called "True Blue", and he does a great cover of Eric Bogle's "Shelter".
You're welcome...
I had a lot of fun building the amp. The enclosure was the hardest, and I it took a few goes to get the left channel stable (bad soldering, I think).
I'm sure you'll enjoy the process and the results.
tim
I had a lot of fun building the amp. The enclosure was the hardest, and I it took a few goes to get the left channel stable (bad soldering, I think).
I'm sure you'll enjoy the process and the results.
tim
Just a quick note to say that now I have the BA-3 up and running with the F4, everything is even better. Fantastic imaging and clarity, a renewed sense of "being there", and even more bass grip.
Best of all, superb dynamics - sometimes scary sforzandi.
It's years since I've spent so much time listening to music.
Thanks, Nelson - it was great to meet you at Burning Amp.
Tim
Best of all, superb dynamics - sometimes scary sforzandi.
It's years since I've spent so much time listening to music.
Thanks, Nelson - it was great to meet you at Burning Amp.
Tim
No room treatments to speak of: a carpet in the middle of the floor, and lots of books. Also somewhat open at the back through a double-sided bookcase.
I did have some bales of R13 fiberglass in the room for a while (under the piano). Not sure they helped.
tim
I did have some bales of R13 fiberglass in the room for a while (under the piano). Not sure they helped.
tim
You seem to have a lot of uneven surfaces with book cases. That helps.
I bring it up because just the other night, I made some small adjustments to my room and it cleared up some haziness and improved image balance. It even tightened up the bass in a basic open baffle design.
I have a barn shaped room with 6 sides and back and front. There's 5 bare, flat, long surfaces. I used 10mm wood cubes attached with blu-tac to breakup the waves a bit. Just using 2 in the corners behind the speakers worked wonders. Sounds nuts, I know, but it helped.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, sometimes it's not our electronics that are to blame.
The room itself plays a big part, yet it's often ignored.
Vince
I once received a letter from the late Senator Strom Thurmond, saying "Such a pleasure being interviewed by you". Regards
I'm sure you're right. I keep thinking about ways to control the room. One idea that's been suggested is to spray gunk on the underside of the floor...probably not going to happen. But I do have lumpy bass, and perhaps something in the corners would help.
A simple bass trap could be made from concrete post forms (cardboard tubes). Cut to size, paint and place in the corners. Just to test. They don't need to be stuffed, but can be wrapped in a cloth to improve look. Just a suggestion. Everyone's room is different and take some experimenting.
No room treatments. I do have a carpet in the middle of the room and lots of books. Also the back of the room is permeable: the bookcase is double-sided so sound can "leak" out of the back of the room.
To make things worse I also have a baby grand in the room, which I suspect gets excited by the music when it's loud...
But to re-iterate, the combination of BA-3 and F4 continues to be stunning, and I find myself listening to more and more music. The biggest bonus seems to be that my CD player (Naim) is much, much more listenable.
The bass in the room is quite variable depending on where I sit, but that's OK - I have spatial tone controls 🙂.
tim
Hello Tim,
I know it's been a while since you put together your F4 + BA3 front end but I'm planning on building the same configuration and had a question for you:
Is it possible to put the BA3 gain stage and F4 boards in a common enclosure and run them in stereo from the same power supply?
If yes, would the either of the boards need modifying from their original build instructions?
Pardon the elementary question... I'm a non-engineer-beginner-DIYer.
Thanks!
I know it's been a while since you put together your F4 + BA3 front end but I'm planning on building the same configuration and had a question for you:
Is it possible to put the BA3 gain stage and F4 boards in a common enclosure and run them in stereo from the same power supply?
If yes, would the either of the boards need modifying from their original build instructions?
Pardon the elementary question... I'm a non-engineer-beginner-DIYer.
Thanks!
Maybe Tim's not following the thread.
The BA3 is a perfectly good candidate, and all you might want to do is have
a little RC filtering on the supply of the BA3 if it doesn't already have some.
The BA3 is a perfectly good candidate, and all you might want to do is have
a little RC filtering on the supply of the BA3 if it doesn't already have some.
If you haven't already purchased your boards / aren't trying to use up existing pieces you have around, you can consider building the BA-3 amplifier => BA-3 front-end with the complimentary output stage. I think you may see some similarities to what you're considering. There's a few threads on the variants for consideration.