I am collecting parts for a cheap F5. I tried building a tube amp years ago from some spare parts I had laying around and it ended in disaster so I am considering this my first true amp building attempts. I have almost everything but I still need an enclosure, RCAs, Binding posts and hookup wire. I think I am going to build my enclosure out of wood but could use some info on the rest. What gauge wire should I be using for hookup? I would assume that bigger is better on the wires going to the speaker binding posts but what is too big? Here is my plan so far.
wires to binding posts - 12g copper stranded (unless you think I can get 10g to work)
binding posts - Radio shack
RCA to PCB - telon coated hookup wire
RCA inputs - Radio shack
I don't mind spending a few extra dollars if it is worth while but I am not trying to build the best F5 ever.
wires to binding posts - 12g copper stranded (unless you think I can get 10g to work)
binding posts - Radio shack
RCA to PCB - telon coated hookup wire
RCA inputs - Radio shack
I don't mind spending a few extra dollars if it is worth while but I am not trying to build the best F5 ever.
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I used 14 gauge for my wiring (rectifiers to power supply, power supply to amp boards, amp boards to binding posts). Even 14 gauge may be a little "overkill".
I used very thin (or as Zen Mod says, "thinnnnnnnnn") twisted pair between the RCA jacks and the amp boards. Most important thing is to keep a tight twist, and to route these input pairs well away from power and output leads.
You can also use Search on the F5 thread, to get other forum members' thoughts.
I used very thin (or as Zen Mod says, "thinnnnnnnnn") twisted pair between the RCA jacks and the amp boards. Most important thing is to keep a tight twist, and to route these input pairs well away from power and output leads.
You can also use Search on the F5 thread, to get other forum members' thoughts.
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Your wire choices seem good, but I'd try to get some better connectors. They may work fine the day you build it, but a couple years down the road you'll wish you used something mechanically more solid and without the poor plating. I'd suggest either industrial quality binding posts from E.F. Johnson, or some audio specific ones from various culprits. You definitely want better RCA connectors than RS.
So I am looking at the wire on apexjr and think it is going to be what I use. I will be picking up 10g teflon coated wire but I am not sure which gauge to use on the RCA hookup. I have usually found bigger to be better with speaker wire but I am not sure that is true with line level signals. Would I be better off with 26g wire or 16g? Does it matter if it's stranded or not?
Well, like I said--I used 14 gauge, and that was probalby overkill.
Are you planning to use 10 guage wire to connect to the amp and/or power supply boards? If so, please get some good pictures!
Depending upon whose PCBs you use for the power supply and amp, I suspect you'll have real issues trying to cram a 10 gauge wire into a PCB hole.....and if that hole is through-plated, drilling it out to accept a 10 gauge wire is a very poor practice. Having said that, your call.
Go with very thinnnnnnn wire for the RCA inputs. I suspect I'm using about 24 or 26 gauge, tightly twisted (see my prior pics) --and when you get that thin, you're running out of "stranded" options. Go with solid core (copper, or better).
Are you planning to use 10 guage wire to connect to the amp and/or power supply boards? If so, please get some good pictures!
Depending upon whose PCBs you use for the power supply and amp, I suspect you'll have real issues trying to cram a 10 gauge wire into a PCB hole.....and if that hole is through-plated, drilling it out to accept a 10 gauge wire is a very poor practice. Having said that, your call.
Go with very thinnnnnnn wire for the RCA inputs. I suspect I'm using about 24 or 26 gauge, tightly twisted (see my prior pics) --and when you get that thin, you're running out of "stranded" options. Go with solid core (copper, or better).
The thing that contributes most to the great sound of these amps is circuit design and beefy power supply. Don't undersize the trafo or the PS caps.
I have used Radio Shack parts and 16 gauge hookup wire throughout on amps and they sounded amazing -- much mcuh better than my Sony ES receiver. The nickel plating is fine.
I do like standard tinned stranded hookup wire. I have seen stranded (non tinned) copper speaker wire corrode due the the heat and flux and vinyl sheathing after it was soldered.
For line level signals I prefer around 20 gauge. 26 is probably fine, but I find it a bit small to work with.
Good luck and please post some pix when the time comes.
JJ
I have used Radio Shack parts and 16 gauge hookup wire throughout on amps and they sounded amazing -- much mcuh better than my Sony ES receiver. The nickel plating is fine.
I do like standard tinned stranded hookup wire. I have seen stranded (non tinned) copper speaker wire corrode due the the heat and flux and vinyl sheathing after it was soldered.
For line level signals I prefer around 20 gauge. 26 is probably fine, but I find it a bit small to work with.
Good luck and please post some pix when the time comes.
JJ
I see Partsconnexion carries DHLabs DHLAbs Hookup Wire red/black twisted pair hookup wire. Seems like a good choice.
Regards,
Dan
Regards,
Dan
Yep..... no real "rocket science" in making a twisted pair--all it takes is a drill, and wires of your choice........but you must have a longer corridor than I do......!
Bigger IS better on the secondary side, and no stranded junk if you want the best out of it
Funny you should say that, because that was mainly the purpose.......Yep..... no real "rocket science" in making a twisted pair--
- sounding rocket payload instrumentation..........
Yikes! $1.50/ft for 20 ga? Apex Jr has 20ga silver-plated stranded copper, ptfe insulation, for $0.18/ft, and smaller gauges for less.
No point in a giant xfmr and big caps if you can't transfer that energy to the outputs!
I vote for the 10ga stranded.
Next vote - 16ga for non high power power connections (none in the F5, but good for assorted ancilliary connections).
Next - 20ga for incoming RCA/line level signal
Personally I do not like solid core wire myself - ymmv.
I do like the SPC with ptfe wire in general. Or pure silver if ur really into it...
RCAs - the gold plated stuff available on ebay from HK are pretty good.
I do not like the nickel plated style. Ratshack probably has fancier stuff these days... dunno.
Binding Posts. These DO make a difference. Most are ok fine. I have run into some that look fine but had something bad and weird going on. Don't ask me what it was, but it made the highs sound like they were some feet above the speaker and maybe distorted. No apparent cause. Replacing with my standard 30amp plastic unit corrected it instantly - after a few hours of abject terror trying to figure out why a 128lb amp I had just built did not sound like all the others that were essentially identical...
So for BPs use at least 30 amp units... the thin little plastic body/threaded ones are NG.
Many are available from assorted sources including ebay...
How much will all this matter? Probably not a bit IF for example you do not have pretty darn good speakers, and in the case of this amp changing the big resistors on the board to another mfr does not yield a change in sound, OR if changing the bias point does not change the sound.
No matter what the first step is to build it and make it work, even if it is spread out on a table or a wood board... then worry about "gilding the lily". Just my opinion.
Remember the F5 is a LOW GAIN amp - it has only about 15-16dB of gain vs. a standard amp that typically has 26dB of gain... you'll need a bit of swing to drive it fully... but not to worry much about that.
_-_-bear
I vote for the 10ga stranded.
Next vote - 16ga for non high power power connections (none in the F5, but good for assorted ancilliary connections).
Next - 20ga for incoming RCA/line level signal
Personally I do not like solid core wire myself - ymmv.
I do like the SPC with ptfe wire in general. Or pure silver if ur really into it...
RCAs - the gold plated stuff available on ebay from HK are pretty good.
I do not like the nickel plated style. Ratshack probably has fancier stuff these days... dunno.
Binding Posts. These DO make a difference. Most are ok fine. I have run into some that look fine but had something bad and weird going on. Don't ask me what it was, but it made the highs sound like they were some feet above the speaker and maybe distorted. No apparent cause. Replacing with my standard 30amp plastic unit corrected it instantly - after a few hours of abject terror trying to figure out why a 128lb amp I had just built did not sound like all the others that were essentially identical...
So for BPs use at least 30 amp units... the thin little plastic body/threaded ones are NG.
Many are available from assorted sources including ebay...
How much will all this matter? Probably not a bit IF for example you do not have pretty darn good speakers, and in the case of this amp changing the big resistors on the board to another mfr does not yield a change in sound, OR if changing the bias point does not change the sound.
No matter what the first step is to build it and make it work, even if it is spread out on a table or a wood board... then worry about "gilding the lily". Just my opinion.
Remember the F5 is a LOW GAIN amp - it has only about 15-16dB of gain vs. a standard amp that typically has 26dB of gain... you'll need a bit of swing to drive it fully... but not to worry much about that.
_-_-bear
If you are using RS RCAs, be sure to use shoulder washers, if your cases is metal.
http://praudio.com/site/shoulder-and-flat-washers-for-rca-jacks-insulation-washer/
http://praudio.com/site/shoulder-and-flat-washers-for-rca-jacks-insulation-washer/
Good luck....
I realise you want to build an inexpensive F5, but that shouldn't mean you should be it cheaply. RCA and binding posts are not expensive, and using good ones is a benefit.
Remember, on whatever power supply/amp module wiring you buy--it's of little use, if it can't easily fit the holes of the PCB's your using. On my boards, I could get 14 gauge to work fine--12 gauge (stranded) would not.
I realise you want to build an inexpensive F5, but that shouldn't mean you should be it cheaply. RCA and binding posts are not expensive, and using good ones is a benefit.
Remember, on whatever power supply/amp module wiring you buy--it's of little use, if it can't easily fit the holes of the PCB's your using. On my boards, I could get 14 gauge to work fine--12 gauge (stranded) would not.
The effect I got was unique, never had that before or after - stayed away from the brand.
So, most will be fine - you want "30 amp" units. Most good hi-fi BPs are that and more.
Most of the import stuff from asia is actually quite good... fyi, and fwiw.
Build it and get it working... worry about fancy later, my 2 cents worth... unless you have a WAF issue...
_-_-bear
So, most will be fine - you want "30 amp" units. Most good hi-fi BPs are that and more.
Most of the import stuff from asia is actually quite good... fyi, and fwiw.
Build it and get it working... worry about fancy later, my 2 cents worth... unless you have a WAF issue...
_-_-bear
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