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Old 17th November 2010, 08:22 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Thiel CS2.4 owners should make sure they have a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier to drive this speaker.
Beyond rating, they need an amplifier known to sound good
into low impedances. This generally means big hardware.

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Old 17th November 2010, 08:34 PM   #62
generg is offline generg  Germany
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Mr. Pass, for instance Aleph 3 or 5?
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Old 18th November 2010, 01:54 AM   #63
JulienG is offline JulienG  China
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PS Audio - Noise Harvester

What about this device from PS audio? I'm a little scared of trying to build something myself...
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Old 18th November 2010, 02:40 AM   #64
Apogee is offline Apogee  United States
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Originally Posted by JulienG View Post
Seems that my next power amp will be the XA100.5... or if I don't wanna spend the money maybe a second hand class A Plinius...
Julien,

Why not take Mr. Pass's advice and get a XA 30.5 as your second amp?

I had the pleasure of spending time with a Pass Aleph 0s. It is rated at 30 watts full Class A.

The hifi club I belong to hooked it up to a pair of Apogee Mini Grands as an experiment thinking there was no possible way it would have enough power. To be honest, it was just one of those "let's watch it fall on it's face" sort of experiments. The Apogees had always required large amps with lots of power to sound decent. From the first note, all in the room were blown away. The joke was clearly on us! That 30 watt amp had FAR more control over those speakers than the 200 watt amps we had been listening to. The lesson we learned was it's about the current capability and not the wattage (within reason). I would have been VERY happy to live with that amp, but it was on audition and had to be returned. I've never forgotten the incredible sonics and will definitely own one someday. And yes, the 30 watts got more than loud enough.

I can only assume the XA would be even better.

I'm sure you won't be disappointed and I would submit Nelson knows what he's talking about.

Kind regards,

Steve
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Last edited by Apogee; 18th November 2010 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 18th November 2010, 08:16 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apogee View Post
Pass Aleph 0s. It is rated at 30 watts full Class A.
Oh No it's not, what an outrage, the Os is a 40W hunk.
Shivers, the agony.
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Old 18th November 2010, 08:23 AM   #66
generg is offline generg  Germany
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Maximum output 25 amps. , 30 volts!
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Old 18th November 2010, 10:52 AM   #67
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Read as Max Headroom editions, where unclipped peak power outranks thd.

(Ah, they fixed my nose)
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Old 19th November 2010, 07:16 AM   #68
JulienG is offline JulienG  China
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apogee View Post
Julien,

Why not take Mr. Pass's advice and get a XA 30.5 as your second amp?

I had the pleasure of spending time with a Pass Aleph 0s. It is rated at 30 watts full Class A.

The hifi club I belong to hooked it up to a pair of Apogee Mini Grands as an experiment thinking there was no possible way it would have enough power. To be honest, it was just one of those "let's watch it fall on it's face" sort of experiments. The Apogees had always required large amps with lots of power to sound decent. From the first note, all in the room were blown away. The joke was clearly on us! That 30 watt amp had FAR more control over those speakers than the 200 watt amps we had been listening to. The lesson we learned was it's about the current capability and not the wattage (within reason). I would have been VERY happy to live with that amp, but it was on audition and had to be returned. I've never forgotten the incredible sonics and will definitely own one someday. And yes, the 30 watts got more than loud enough.

I can only assume the XA would be even better.

I'm sure you won't be disappointed and I would submit Nelson knows what he's talking about.

Kind regards,

Steve
You are right. I didn't have the experience nor that much information when I ordered the x250.5, now I understand that the bias/current capabilities are much more important for low impedance speakers such as mine. Apparently the sensitivity is closer to 88db, but even at 87db it shouldn't be a problem since I don't listen at crazy volumes and my normal listening position is under three meters away from the speakers. Isolation is bad in our building so I don't want to play too loud anyway, do not need huge dynamics (sometimes if you're close a little compression is welcome, you don't want to be adjusting the volume at the extremes...), and need controlled but not "big" bass. So my guess is that even into my speakers at medium volumes it shouldn't really leave class A too much. XA30.5 on the way, please tell me I am doing the right thing...
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Old 19th November 2010, 09:30 AM   #69
nar is offline nar
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I tell you you can spend a lot of $$ then

For the "bzzzz" from the amps, Nelson is right it's about DC residual on your AC line.

The Cleaner someone shown could be built easily. A rule of thumb seems you can do one with a big diode bridge, big capacitance bypassed by a high quality fim capacitor. This "DC block filter" can be conveniently built in a plastic box for safety, with a AC line plug in and an AC line plug out. Then you connect your amp on it and it won't bzzzzzz anymore

Afterwards you can even build one per apparatus eg one for your source and one for your pre. The rule of thumb is described here: per 100VA, 10.000uF capacitance

DIY Audio Projects

the site uses frames so I can't point out the right page. Go to tips and tricks then •230V/AC DC-Filter

I try to attach pic of schematic here


Technique was used long ago in power amps such as Mark Levinsons. Those modules can be placed right in each DIY apparatus, or in external box for hifi regular. One per element can make the DC block more efficient and capacitance adapted to each element's power consumption.

Less than 10 euro for the filter

Maybe you'll run the XA on the top and X amp for the bass if yout speaker permits bi-wiring / passive bi-amping ? That way you have to output 2 sets of parallels from the pre and feed each amp. Once gain settings are set, it could run fine ... you'll get bass punch of the X and soft highs and medium from the XAs might be a little complicated to set at first, I wish I could help you, if the Thiels permit this of course Terrific setup !!!


Regards,

nAr
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File Type: gif Netzfilter_Gleichrichter.gif (957 Bytes, 179 views)
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Last edited by nar; 19th November 2010 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 19th November 2010, 10:07 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulienG View Post
doing the right thing...
....Yeah : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OA4PghOpbM
........Or : YouTube - Snap - The power

I've had the 0s on 86db (/w/m) ESL's, worked like a charm.
In practice, the Aleph 0s is more like a 50W amp : a 50W amp + 86dB sensitivity loudspeakers is near equivalent to a ~30W amp and 88dB loudspeakers.

In my experience, even low sensitivity loudspeakers produce loud enough sound with far less powerfull amps than often used.
A 200W amp is serious hardware, but doesn't turn up the volume so much louder than a handy-size amp.
Plus us entre-midi Europeans seem less hard of hearing than the average North-American, or e.g. the Scandinavian ear flavor.
Noblesse oblige ?
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