Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Pass Labs

Pass Labs This forum is dedicated to Pass Labs discussion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th October 2010, 09:07 PM   #1
NYCOne is offline NYCOne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Blog Entries: 1
Default CheffDeGaar UGS preamp vs other or Borbely

I bought the boards to make the CheffDeGaar UGS preamp. In reading through the threads, I came across a few people that didn't like the preamp compared to:

Borbely SE JFET
http://www.borbelyaudio.com/pics/EB-...02%20final.pdf

Or the Choky and Oly Pumpkin
http://choky.diyaudio.rs/downloads/T...6%20Shunty.pdf

Before I spend the money on the build (the UGS with the shunts will run a fair amount), do folks have experience with the other preamps I've noted?

I'm running an F5 amp and need gain.

Thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010, 10:18 PM   #2
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
best way is to build all 3 and listen

but - even better is to make what you already have , connect to F5 and enjoy .

who cares what others say - you'll listen with your ears



(with F5 - differences between these three preamps - are just matter of taste; so - no big deal )
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010, 10:25 PM   #3
NYCOne is offline NYCOne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Blog Entries: 1
I understand the thought, but time and money don't permit the 3 way taste test.

If one or the other stands out in either direction, it's worthwhile knowing. Afterall, without input from others, we would all have to build everything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th October 2010, 10:47 PM   #4
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
I put smiley , when I wrote about building all 3

later I wrote that you proceed with UGS , which you already have

because :

Quote:
with F5 - differences between these 3 preamps - are just matter of taste; so - no big deal
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 12:18 AM   #5
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCOne View Post
I understand the thought, but time and money don't permit the 3 way taste test.
I remember saying the exact same thing a few years ago.
I have now built 6 amps, 2 preamps, and I have at least another 4 more amps I would like to build as well as few of my own designs, as well as an IV, and a few more preamps.

Where do I go for DIYAUDIO anonymous counselling?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 12:33 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
jacco vermeulen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: At the sea front, Rotterdam or Curaçao
Send a message via Yahoo to jacco vermeulen
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCOne View Post
compared to: Borbely SE JFET
Balanced designs only work if they're balanced.

Balanced also implies that the left and right part (aka inverting + non-inverting) operate identical (step two is building left and right channel as close as possible).
Which means that you have to invest in a lot of parts to build a proper one, especially those with local NFB only (Burbely rear ended).
The main reason why commercial products of relative simplicity are very costly, (sale tag also pays for the rejects and the time invested in them)

Nice example is the current Goldmund folly at the SS forum.
Original parts are hard (expensive) to come by, and a Lateral MOSFET output stage of 3-4 complementary pairs without source resistors obligates buying a lot of them for proper matching.
Name something Swiss that cost $25K in 1994, the hurd will scream for boards.
MSRP of a '90s Rolls paid for the hand-painted Golden line on the sides, a dozen scar-free Connolly leather hides, a flashy bird on the radiator.
It also paid for a hand-assembled and blueprinted engine, including the mechanic's signature.
__________________
BOXES for crying out loud

Last edited by jacco vermeulen; 10th October 2010 at 12:35 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 12:39 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: midwest
I'm going to try Pumpkin, as soon as ZM's paypal issues are resolved.
How's that going by the way?

Russellc
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 12:45 PM   #8
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russellc View Post
I'm going to try Pumpkin, as soon as ZM's paypal issues are resolved.
How's that going by the way?

Russellc
soon .

even Bank branches have working hours
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 05:55 PM   #9
NYCOne is offline NYCOne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Blog Entries: 1
Default Nagging questions as I build preamp(s)

It's taken longer than it should have, but I think I'll have all the parts for a fully balanced system in a few days.

As you may have surmised, I'm new to DIY audio. I found the most difficult part was getting specifics from people that have done it before. I certainly understand a commercial enterprise keeping trade secrets. I seem to have encountered an issue around not being expert enough to warrant specific answers to real questions, or being told to "read the thread". I can tell you, I've read some of these threads 20 times. When you don't understand something new, reading over and over again is not the answer.

Some examples:
I still don't know what the distortion figures are for an F5 with different feedback resistors. Folks point to feeback resistors of 75 ohms and 100 ohms (instead of 50 ohms) as ways of getting more gain, but I haven't seen any analysis of the distortion using those parameters. I don't have access to the equipment to check it myself.

I still don't know how to refigure resistors for a balanced version of the F5 using the IRF outputs. If anyone knows, I'd appreciate a heads up. The electronics expertise to answer this question is beyond my abilities.

And getting back to this thread, I've read about a number of people seeking preamps for their F5. The one's I've listed in this thread seem like naturals for the F5. I would have guessed many people have tried these out and have A vs. B thoughts.

Any input is appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2010, 06:23 PM   #10
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
well - I can say that you're given with answer to your question , asked in this thread ;

build Papa Borbely's preamp and enjoy ; it's on par with two other you mention .

regarding other questions ...... ask them one by one ........ here or in any other thread ;

just one thing - do not bother with F5 distortion ; it's certainly better than most amps you can buy for sane amount of greenies ;

distortion numbers will not tell you what's important , on this level of game .
more important thing in changing feedback ratio in F5 , or changing type of outputs is , say , damping factor change , same as distortion harmonics distribution ;
long but short story ;
if you say that you don't have enough electronic knowledge - you can't be filled with knowledge in short ..... you must trust someone to tell you differences in simple terms

speaking of which ...... (game) you didn't tell what speakers you have , room , listening habits ( meaning on SPL ) ;
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
tnx to clean thread ; Cook Book ; PSM LS Cook Book ; Baby Diyaudio FORUM ; Mighty ZM's Bloggg;I'm dumb
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Borbely Hybride Phono Preamp EDDELARUE Solid State 4 22nd October 2012 07:57 AM
UGS preamp for sale?! Kovax Pass Labs 3 14th April 2010 02:04 AM
Amp cases, Borbely preamp, Elenco scope, aluminum Jason_N Swap Meet 10 9th July 2009 04:24 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:03 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2