I am in the final stage of making the PCB and component selection for the Aleph Preamplifier Clone but stuck on the selection of 10uf input and output coupling capacitors.
Due to the budget and space contrain, Should I go with the Wima 10uf/100V MKP4, Solen 10uf/250V or BlackGate N-type 10uf/50V? I know it has been suggested to used the MPP type capacitors in the signal critical areas but I also read the Blackgate N-type is just as good if not better than some cheaper MPP type capacitors.
Since 16 capacitors will cost me close to $100, I would like to buy them once and just enjoy listening to music afterward. With all the knowledge people here in the forum, I would like to ask for your expertise and suggestions. Thank you very much for all of your help.
Due to the budget and space contrain, Should I go with the Wima 10uf/100V MKP4, Solen 10uf/250V or BlackGate N-type 10uf/50V? I know it has been suggested to used the MPP type capacitors in the signal critical areas but I also read the Blackgate N-type is just as good if not better than some cheaper MPP type capacitors.
Since 16 capacitors will cost me close to $100, I would like to buy them once and just enjoy listening to music afterward. With all the knowledge people here in the forum, I would like to ask for your expertise and suggestions. Thank you very much for all of your help.
10uf Caps
The caps I would be looking at are from Reliable Capacitors, TRT Dynamic Caps, Auricap Caps and ASC X363-10-5-100. The ASC used to be made by TRW and are very good. I would purchase a some of the cap I have mentioned and then use some Solens to complete the total value about 50/50 mix. In addition, I would not use electrolytic caps in the signal path. If you do not have the money for the high-end cap leave room them on your layout, you want to change them in the future.
ASC are sold by Allied Electronics at 1-800-433-5700 www.alliedelec.com
The other caps can be purchased from Michael Percy Audio www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
Jim
The caps I would be looking at are from Reliable Capacitors, TRT Dynamic Caps, Auricap Caps and ASC X363-10-5-100. The ASC used to be made by TRW and are very good. I would purchase a some of the cap I have mentioned and then use some Solens to complete the total value about 50/50 mix. In addition, I would not use electrolytic caps in the signal path. If you do not have the money for the high-end cap leave room them on your layout, you want to change them in the future.
ASC are sold by Allied Electronics at 1-800-433-5700 www.alliedelec.com
The other caps can be purchased from Michael Percy Audio www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
Jim
I wouldn't hesitate to use BG N type caps over Solens any time. They are comparatively smaller and reasonably priced (comparing to other exotic brands). I've been using them in my amps and DACs and for the price and size, as well sonics, it's hard to beat them.
Also, 10u value is not critical here, and anything reasonably close to it is fine.
Also, 10u value is not critical here, and anything reasonably close to it is fine.
i've placed some wima mkp4 10uF on my preamp pcb.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Why not modern Electrolytics?
Hi,
I checked many Caps, foil types as well as electrolytics (lets call them elcos). Also many bypassing possibilities.
I find that all fat foil elcos somehow sound a bit of slowly and intransparent. Just ultra inductance free types like Mundorf Supreme get rid of this- but they are very expensive, too.
Modern, best class Elcos sound very open, fast and they are reasonable. I personally prefer the Panasonic FC type. BG also do good - but the price... Elna IMHO sound terrible bright. And now THE trick: to get rid of the bright and "sharp" elco sound bypass them with 10-22nF Styroflex or small foil caps (ERO1830, EMZ like Thel has). The result really is exiting! Nothing left of the bit of aggressive elco sound, extreme open and dynamic.
After more than one year with this solution (220UF Pana FC/25V + 10nF ERO 1830) I testetd back to 33UF Solen MKP plus diverse bypass tests. No chance at all! Give you the chance and just test it - maybe your PCB´s can become much smaller due to missing Cap monsters and your saved budget will support other divices.
Regards
Klaus
Hi,
I checked many Caps, foil types as well as electrolytics (lets call them elcos). Also many bypassing possibilities.
I find that all fat foil elcos somehow sound a bit of slowly and intransparent. Just ultra inductance free types like Mundorf Supreme get rid of this- but they are very expensive, too.
Modern, best class Elcos sound very open, fast and they are reasonable. I personally prefer the Panasonic FC type. BG also do good - but the price... Elna IMHO sound terrible bright. And now THE trick: to get rid of the bright and "sharp" elco sound bypass them with 10-22nF Styroflex or small foil caps (ERO1830, EMZ like Thel has). The result really is exiting! Nothing left of the bit of aggressive elco sound, extreme open and dynamic.
After more than one year with this solution (220UF Pana FC/25V + 10nF ERO 1830) I testetd back to 33UF Solen MKP plus diverse bypass tests. No chance at all! Give you the chance and just test it - maybe your PCB´s can become much smaller due to missing Cap monsters and your saved budget will support other divices.
Regards
Klaus
the sound. 
Hi Aleph P experts,
I was wondering what the minimum voltage should be for the 10uF capacitors in the Aleph P 1.7?
Of course I do not mean the caps within the powersupply, which must be 100 Volt of course...
Does anyone know the minimum requirements?
I find it very hard to find MKPs that will fit on the nice PCB that Kristijan makes. (Max 30 mm long, 15 mm wide).
Most fat MKPs are very big.
I hesitate in using MKTs...
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Lucas.
I was wondering what the minimum voltage should be for the 10uF capacitors in the Aleph P 1.7?
Of course I do not mean the caps within the powersupply, which must be 100 Volt of course...
Does anyone know the minimum requirements?
I find it very hard to find MKPs that will fit on the nice PCB that Kristijan makes. (Max 30 mm long, 15 mm wide).
Most fat MKPs are very big.
I hesitate in using MKTs...
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Lucas.
Lucas_G said:
i've got them from a collegeu of my he builds his own tube amp's. i've got them fot 5 euro a pice ( special price for me).
I've only build them in my preamp that is not ready and it would take some time longer becauce i've no money left.
Lucas_G said:
the MKP 4 are 41mm by 20 mm pitch 37,5
gr jaac
A Taiwan site offering 4,7uf Rifa PHE series. You see that topic right in the middle. I have ordered 30 pcs with credit card and it proves that they are true sellers. If you folks decide to get some just ask them to do the packing a bit better to avoid bending the leads.
http://www.diyzone.net/
http://www.diyzone.net/
Quote Peter Daniel
"I wouldn't hesitate to use BG N type caps over Solens any time. They are comparatively smaller and reasonably priced (comparing to other exotic brands). I've been using them in my amps and DACs and for the price and size, as well sonics, it's hard to beat them.
Also, 10u value is not critical here, and anything reasonably close to it is fine."
I could not agree more, I have these in my BOSOZ X and they perform very well.
You may wish to do a search on capacitor for audio selection and look for an article by Richard Marsh.
Interestingly, most capacitors and particularly electros perform best with a solid bias voltage for ac coupling into a relatively low impediance load.
The BOSOZ would appear to provide these operating conditions.
Enjoy
macka
"I wouldn't hesitate to use BG N type caps over Solens any time. They are comparatively smaller and reasonably priced (comparing to other exotic brands). I've been using them in my amps and DACs and for the price and size, as well sonics, it's hard to beat them.
Also, 10u value is not critical here, and anything reasonably close to it is fine."
I could not agree more, I have these in my BOSOZ X and they perform very well.
You may wish to do a search on capacitor for audio selection and look for an article by Richard Marsh.
Interestingly, most capacitors and particularly electros perform best with a solid bias voltage for ac coupling into a relatively low impediance load.
The BOSOZ would appear to provide these operating conditions.
Enjoy
macka
Just to throw in my 2 cents here, we've been secretly playing
with exotic caps for quite some time, although I don't like to
push them (or many other exotic parts) because of the high
expense/benefit ratio.
Nevertheless, you want to check out www.northcreekmusic.com
for the Zen and Crescendo capacitors. We are currently using
the less expensive Zens in our speaker doings, and have not
seen better yet.
with exotic caps for quite some time, although I don't like to
push them (or many other exotic parts) because of the high
expense/benefit ratio.
Nevertheless, you want to check out www.northcreekmusic.com
for the Zen and Crescendo capacitors. We are currently using
the less expensive Zens in our speaker doings, and have not
seen better yet.
Film Caps & Crescendo capacitors
I have been using the Crescendo capacitors for some time and they are very good caps. Some years back I switched from Solen to the Crescendo and what nice difference it made in my speakers. My only issue with them is their size. Having said that, there are allot of fine film caps on the market and some that aren’t.
I have been using the Crescendo capacitors for some time and they are very good caps. Some years back I switched from Solen to the Crescendo and what nice difference it made in my speakers. My only issue with them is their size. Having said that, there are allot of fine film caps on the market and some that aren’t.
Voltages and max capacity
Hi Lucas,
A late answer. I measure at my Aleph P1.7 (running now almost three weeks…) the following voltages:
Input caps ca. 13V.
Output caps ca. 27V.
Polarity see schematic – of cause each point at any FET it higher than 0V of cap ground side.
The max AC peak to be added. So 50V or even 35V types of electrolytic caps or any foil type will work fine.
Much more critical is the increasing of the capacity values. Theoretically it has to be expected that the circuit could have problems to load much bigger caps to this voltages and even could hang somehow at powering up to idle current. I tested the 1.7 with 220Uf electrolytics and found exactly this effect. It takes the circuit ca. 5sec to come to 1/3 of idle current, than hanging for a while with nervous jumping current. After average 15sec the amp finally come up to normal idle current, the caps are loaded. I found no other negative effect. My Aleph P1.0 version 7bit volume attenuator needs ca. 20sec to first switch on, so I hear nothing of this hanging effect. I will stay with this solution – the big advantage: I have now everywhere in my chain Aleph1.7 + Aleph4 mono blocks exactly the same cap (Panasonic FC 220UF 25V – will be changed to higher voltage types + 10nF bypass foil type), so just ONE and EQUAL sound character. This means failure minimization! As written before, I like the transparency, dynamics and detail richness of ultra inductance free small electrolytics. Fat foil caps comparatively sound slowly and "closed", IMHO. And the FC´s cost almost nothing, check them out...
Buy the way, the 1000UF FC electrolytics 63V also sound very, very well for PSU: dynamic, control, really nice. Spend just the cap directly behind the PSU regulator a good bypass (I use ultra inductance free 0,1UF M-Cap Supreme + 10nF MKP = best all round bypass I found) and the Aleph P circuit can show what is possible! The sound, specially mentioned the bass control and sound flexibility and "saturation" is outstanding and amazing! Last detail before I will show some pics next weeks: 350VA transformer buffered in 40mF caps will be part of the positive story.
Regards
Klaus
Lucas_G said:
Hi Lucas,
A late answer. I measure at my Aleph P1.7 (running now almost three weeks…) the following voltages:
Input caps ca. 13V.
Output caps ca. 27V.
Polarity see schematic – of cause each point at any FET it higher than 0V of cap ground side.
The max AC peak to be added. So 50V or even 35V types of electrolytic caps or any foil type will work fine.
Much more critical is the increasing of the capacity values. Theoretically it has to be expected that the circuit could have problems to load much bigger caps to this voltages and even could hang somehow at powering up to idle current. I tested the 1.7 with 220Uf electrolytics and found exactly this effect. It takes the circuit ca. 5sec to come to 1/3 of idle current, than hanging for a while with nervous jumping current. After average 15sec the amp finally come up to normal idle current, the caps are loaded. I found no other negative effect. My Aleph P1.0 version 7bit volume attenuator needs ca. 20sec to first switch on, so I hear nothing of this hanging effect. I will stay with this solution – the big advantage: I have now everywhere in my chain Aleph1.7 + Aleph4 mono blocks exactly the same cap (Panasonic FC 220UF 25V – will be changed to higher voltage types + 10nF bypass foil type), so just ONE and EQUAL sound character. This means failure minimization! As written before, I like the transparency, dynamics and detail richness of ultra inductance free small electrolytics. Fat foil caps comparatively sound slowly and "closed", IMHO. And the FC´s cost almost nothing, check them out...
Buy the way, the 1000UF FC electrolytics 63V also sound very, very well for PSU: dynamic, control, really nice. Spend just the cap directly behind the PSU regulator a good bypass (I use ultra inductance free 0,1UF M-Cap Supreme + 10nF MKP = best all round bypass I found) and the Aleph P circuit can show what is possible! The sound, specially mentioned the bass control and sound flexibility and "saturation" is outstanding and amazing! Last detail before I will show some pics next weeks: 350VA transformer buffered in 40mF caps will be part of the positive story.
Regards
Klaus
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