Hello all and thanks very much before I even ask my question. This forum is great and even if I don't get a single reply to this post I owe all of you a great deal in what I have gained by reading your posts over the last month or so. Amazing and fantastic!!!
So, my question is this: Which amp should I build as my first DIY amp project?
Some background information to consider:
1) I am a materials engineer working in the R&D business, so my general technical knowledge level is high.
2) I am not an electrical engineer, so my electrical knowledge is fair to poor.
3) My most advanced piece of diagnostic gear will be a Fluke multimeter.
4) I have reread all the publications at PassDIY many times and I feel pretty confident I understand all the concepts presented there.
5) My speakers sensitivity is 89 dB/W/m, impedance is 8 ohms nominal with a 6 ohm minimum (B&W LCR6S2's)
6) I am not the power hungry type. The best sounding system I have yet heard used a 30W/Ch Copland tube amp.
7) I am pretty handy at buiding stuff in general and have great soldering skills.
8) The WAF is critical in my household (Yes I'm whipped!)
I like the idea of building a Zen4 but wonder if it will work well with my speakers, and I am pretty sure building an Aleph X is way out of my league. The Aleph 30 is currently appealing to me. Some feedback from more experienced minds would be greatly appreaciated.
So, my question is this: Which amp should I build as my first DIY amp project?
Some background information to consider:
1) I am a materials engineer working in the R&D business, so my general technical knowledge level is high.
2) I am not an electrical engineer, so my electrical knowledge is fair to poor.
3) My most advanced piece of diagnostic gear will be a Fluke multimeter.
4) I have reread all the publications at PassDIY many times and I feel pretty confident I understand all the concepts presented there.
5) My speakers sensitivity is 89 dB/W/m, impedance is 8 ohms nominal with a 6 ohm minimum (B&W LCR6S2's)
6) I am not the power hungry type. The best sounding system I have yet heard used a 30W/Ch Copland tube amp.
7) I am pretty handy at buiding stuff in general and have great soldering skills.
8) The WAF is critical in my household (Yes I'm whipped!)
I like the idea of building a Zen4 but wonder if it will work well with my speakers, and I am pretty sure building an Aleph X is way out of my league. The Aleph 30 is currently appealing to me. Some feedback from more experienced minds would be greatly appreaciated.
Mostly I listen to early jazz or newer vocal jazz and acoustic instrumental stuff, but every now and then I like to hit the rock, so dynamicism is important too. I like good soundstaging, but I will always trade on soundstaging for improvement in tonal timbre and a more natural sound. I like liquidity but not to the point of the euphonic tube sounding gear.
I suspect this is why I am gravitating strongly to Mr. Pass' designs. I play guitar a fair bit and I liek nothing better to hear the perfect natural shimmer and decays of guitar strings. I do like good bass, but I have a *GULP* subwoofer taking care of that problem (can't wait for Mr. Pass to release his crossovewr design!)
I suspect this is why I am gravitating strongly to Mr. Pass' designs. I play guitar a fair bit and I liek nothing better to hear the perfect natural shimmer and decays of guitar strings. I do like good bass, but I have a *GULP* subwoofer taking care of that problem (can't wait for Mr. Pass to release his crossovewr design!)
Go for Alephs.Build either Aleph 5 or Aleph 4.Both outperform easily Zen's ,no matter what variation is it (I mine that couse I built them all).I think that Aleph X might be too hard to built as a first project ,especially that there is no actual correct schematics for it.Alephs are simple and clear ,also properly built offer outstanding sound quality.I might also go for Gainclone which is extremely simple and cheap,but I built that amp a couple of days ago and i think there is too much hype about.In high quality companion yhey just loose with Alephs.
Bartek
Bartek
good aleph projects
check out:
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip/index.html
build an Aleph 5.
if you need a preamp, build the Balanced Zen Line Stage.
it's excellent. Use the balanced outputs to drive the A5.
check out:
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip/index.html
build an Aleph 5.
if you need a preamp, build the Balanced Zen Line Stage.
it's excellent. Use the balanced outputs to drive the A5.
why bzls is no good
i found their architectures are almost same in bzls and aleph-p ,aleph-L. why bzls is worse than two others? they all have
differential pair of mosfet , difference is that one use resistors and the other use constant current source. i remember nelson had said resistor is better than constant current source.
i found their architectures are almost same in bzls and aleph-p ,aleph-L. why bzls is worse than two others? they all have
differential pair of mosfet , difference is that one use resistors and the other use constant current source. i remember nelson had said resistor is better than constant current source.
For a Newbie though, the Balanced Line Stage is the preamp to
go with. You can't beat the excellent construction article. And
it's a great sounding circuit, along with the Aleph L & P's
but Metalman's main question was which amp to build. I wouldn't
shrug off the Zen V4 becasue again, the article is there to help
you along and finish it. Then you can build an Aleph to compare
go with. You can't beat the excellent construction article. And
it's a great sounding circuit, along with the Aleph L & P's
but Metalman's main question was which amp to build. I wouldn't
shrug off the Zen V4 becasue again, the article is there to help
you along and finish it. Then you can build an Aleph to compare
I would build at least the Aleph 5. Its not going to be any more difficult than the 30 is and you could probably combine the input parts from the 30 and make the 5 a 50. A few more transistors and a bit larger power supply. Keep things simple to get it running and gain knowledge of building something like this. Then you can do experimentation and change some components in the circuitry to create changes in the sound. Start basic and expand your knowledge and the sound of the Aleph from there.
Keep in mind that none of the Alephs sound exactly the same sonically although you couldn't do wrong with any of them.....
Why build the 5..... The 3, or the 30 is definately a classic amp but I think your speakers need a tad more power, plus the 5 has a lot better bottom end and will overload much more gracefully than the Aleph three will. I built a pair of Aleph 2's...not my first big audio type project by any means. but I found the whole thing quite simple to pull off....the difficult part was making the chassis, and I do have machining experience. My decision to build the 2's was partly based on Nelson's reccommendation as to how each Aleph amp sounded. He said the 2's are the most neutral of the bunch and were his favorite. You could probably go back and find his post on that somewhere. It was sort of interesting.
Kristians PCB's seem to be very high quality and using them should help you alot towards getting a finished working unit quite easily!! Also, buy at least three times the number of output devices you will need so you have plenty to match up. Digikey is a good place. I requested them to and they gave me devices that were all from the same date code. Not every supplier will do this for you.... This makes matching far more easier and the drvices are really consistant. I used IRFP240's for the outputs...and IRFP 9610's on the input. These are inexpensive!!!
Hope none of this has confused you any further and that I've been of some help..... Dive in !
Mark
P.S. I am also using an Aleph L with my 2's.
Keep in mind that none of the Alephs sound exactly the same sonically although you couldn't do wrong with any of them.....
Why build the 5..... The 3, or the 30 is definately a classic amp but I think your speakers need a tad more power, plus the 5 has a lot better bottom end and will overload much more gracefully than the Aleph three will. I built a pair of Aleph 2's...not my first big audio type project by any means. but I found the whole thing quite simple to pull off....the difficult part was making the chassis, and I do have machining experience. My decision to build the 2's was partly based on Nelson's reccommendation as to how each Aleph amp sounded. He said the 2's are the most neutral of the bunch and were his favorite. You could probably go back and find his post on that somewhere. It was sort of interesting.
Kristians PCB's seem to be very high quality and using them should help you alot towards getting a finished working unit quite easily!! Also, buy at least three times the number of output devices you will need so you have plenty to match up. Digikey is a good place. I requested them to and they gave me devices that were all from the same date code. Not every supplier will do this for you.... This makes matching far more easier and the drvices are really consistant. I used IRFP240's for the outputs...and IRFP 9610's on the input. These are inexpensive!!!
Hope none of this has confused you any further and that I've been of some help..... Dive in !
Mark
P.S. I am also using an Aleph L with my 2's.
I don't say BLS is bad preamp.I enjoyed it a lot when I first built it (it was my first preamp that I built from Pass),but when You compare it with Aleph L and Aleph P it lacks a lot.I think the advantage of projects from PassDiy over schematics of components that were in production is full instruction,which may be very helpful for some builders.
Bartek
Bartek
Line Stage Recommendations Needed Too
Thank you all for the great responses. I think my first question has been answered, and the Aleph 5 appears to be the way to go.
Moe29, thank you very much for putting me on to Kristijan's site for the PCB's. I was considering building my own boards, but this will make it a lot simpler. Mark, thanks for seconding moe's suggestion. Bartek, your input has been wonderful.
As to the discussion on line stages, this is very usefull to me also. My current system is based around a Rotel RA971Mk2 integrated that I have moded somewhat, which I will use as my line stage once the amp is finished, but I am planning on building a line stage as soon as the amp is finished.
Terry
Thank you all for the great responses. I think my first question has been answered, and the Aleph 5 appears to be the way to go.
Moe29, thank you very much for putting me on to Kristijan's site for the PCB's. I was considering building my own boards, but this will make it a lot simpler. Mark, thanks for seconding moe's suggestion. Bartek, your input has been wonderful.
As to the discussion on line stages, this is very usefull to me also. My current system is based around a Rotel RA971Mk2 integrated that I have moded somewhat, which I will use as my line stage once the amp is finished, but I am planning on building a line stage as soon as the amp is finished.
Terry
Power Supply Mania
OK, work took me out of action for a while, but I am getting back moving again. My new question is this:
I think I might have become a little overzelaous with my pursuit of a really good power supply design for an Aleph 5, so I am posting it for a little feedback. It should be ultraquiet, but I wonder about it's response to transients.
OK, work took me out of action for a while, but I am getting back moving again. My new question is this:
I think I might have become a little overzelaous with my pursuit of a really good power supply design for an Aleph 5, so I am posting it for a little feedback. It should be ultraquiet, but I wonder about it's response to transients.
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