FAKES
utsource offer me $8 refund on a $67 order, $8 of it was shipping.
I got the Nikon out and I hope you can see the transistors with greater detail.
Sorry about the lighting.
Photos of the face then the back. I marked "P" & "N" on the back so you could tell which was which.
Zhou Fang's is the TO-220 on the left in all photos. I don't have any more 2SK1530/2SJ201's to compare. The 2SK1530's look like they might be Toshiba, the 2SJ201's have the sanded face like the 2SJ313's do, so I bet they are fakes.
The 2SK2013's look different than Zhou's with a ridge around the face and other noticeable differences in the case as you can see.
utsource offer me $8 refund on a $67 order, $8 of it was shipping.
I got the Nikon out and I hope you can see the transistors with greater detail.
Sorry about the lighting.
Photos of the face then the back. I marked "P" & "N" on the back so you could tell which was which.
Zhou Fang's is the TO-220 on the left in all photos. I don't have any more 2SK1530/2SJ201's to compare. The 2SK1530's look like they might be Toshiba, the 2SJ201's have the sanded face like the 2SJ313's do, so I bet they are fakes.
The 2SK2013's look different than Zhou's with a ridge around the face and other noticeable differences in the case as you can see.
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Ah, that's a very clear photo - thanks.
Sam, looks like we're all on the warpath for either replacement with genuine Toshiba parts or a refund, altho the reply that Rush received doesn't seem helpful.
Looking back on this thread, it was in May this year that both Prakit and CeeVee reported these units as tested Fakes (plus some bad 2sj74s) - Prakit received a refund, no problems, not sure about CeeVee.
Maybe it's the long delay in reporting a problem - maybe they just don't care - maybe ...
So, how do we go about the process of obtaining a satisfactory result, eh?
Well, I'll try the softly approach and just ask them for replacement with genuine Toshibas with "regrets and a bit diplomatic" and we'll see what happens -
I mean, I do still want the things, despite the bad taste of bad parts - reminds me a bit of the failed GB with the 2sk389/j109 a few years ago - a disaster for everyone.
Rush, I had a look at some of the 2sk1530s and j201s - both these matched pairs came from the GB and both types look the same - flat dull surface, faint etch/printing, three glossy dimples on the front - both look the same, apart from the numbers on them.
Sam, looks like we're all on the warpath for either replacement with genuine Toshiba parts or a refund, altho the reply that Rush received doesn't seem helpful.
Looking back on this thread, it was in May this year that both Prakit and CeeVee reported these units as tested Fakes (plus some bad 2sj74s) - Prakit received a refund, no problems, not sure about CeeVee.
Maybe it's the long delay in reporting a problem - maybe they just don't care - maybe ...
So, how do we go about the process of obtaining a satisfactory result, eh?
Well, I'll try the softly approach and just ask them for replacement with genuine Toshibas with "regrets and a bit diplomatic" and we'll see what happens -
I mean, I do still want the things, despite the bad taste of bad parts - reminds me a bit of the failed GB with the 2sk389/j109 a few years ago - a disaster for everyone.
Rush, I had a look at some of the 2sk1530s and j201s - both these matched pairs came from the GB and both types look the same - flat dull surface, faint etch/printing, three glossy dimples on the front - both look the same, apart from the numbers on them.
Well, it seems that 'utsource' has got a bunch of bad k2013/313 fets and unfortunately, I encouraged a few people to get some from them and they all appear to be bad ones - i did get mine sometime last year tho.
I don't know about your j201s but it looks a bit questionable - let's not over-react here (says 'me' who rushed to check the BF862!!)
It is still quite common for even big suppliers to be caught out with bad components and we just have to get used to it these days, unfortunately.
The main thing is that the "good" companies will go out of their way to replace or reimburse customers for the bad parts - maybe "utsource" will do the same, despite their 2 month "thing" if we approach it in the right way -
We're not really big customers to them and annoying someone who is responsible for solving complaints is probably not the best way to get a "good" solution - possibly, asking for 'good' or replacement/genuine parts will fit in better with company procedures than asking for a $60 refund - dunno, we'll see.
Perhaps we can find that person who will 'take care' of our problem and then we can all send our queries to this same guy - I'm trying to think how I would fix the problem if it was my company but business procedures might have changed a bit since I was last there - A bit of patience, maybe, and perserverance.
I don't know about your j201s but it looks a bit questionable - let's not over-react here (says 'me' who rushed to check the BF862!!)
It is still quite common for even big suppliers to be caught out with bad components and we just have to get used to it these days, unfortunately.
The main thing is that the "good" companies will go out of their way to replace or reimburse customers for the bad parts - maybe "utsource" will do the same, despite their 2 month "thing" if we approach it in the right way -
We're not really big customers to them and annoying someone who is responsible for solving complaints is probably not the best way to get a "good" solution - possibly, asking for 'good' or replacement/genuine parts will fit in better with company procedures than asking for a $60 refund - dunno, we'll see.
Perhaps we can find that person who will 'take care' of our problem and then we can all send our queries to this same guy - I'm trying to think how I would fix the problem if it was my company but business procedures might have changed a bit since I was last there - A bit of patience, maybe, and perserverance.
buzzforb is trying to organize a group buy for k2013/j313 from seemingly reliable source here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/193523-2sk2013-2sj313-gb-interest.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/193523-2sk2013-2sj313-gb-interest.html
Well they're quick to reply to emails but no mention about "incorrect marking" on fets or fake devices - just a regretful "no" as the purchase date is well beyond their 60 day guarantee period.
Dear James, thanks for your email, but you bought parts on 9/27/2010, it already about 1 year, we offer 60 days full quality guarantee, if any problem in 60 days we can change or refund payment to you, but it over so long time, we can not return to our supplier and we do not have guarantee for this item. sorry again.
Davis [/COLOR]=======================================================================
Buy Electronic components,Ic,Module,Transistor at UTSOURCE YOUR ONE STOP SOURCE FOR ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS
UTSOURCE.NET power by UTSOURCE International(S) Pte.Ltd.Singapore Service Line : TEL : 0065-315-631-17
Email: sales@utsource.net
So, basically that's it - not totally unexpected really, but had hopes they would be better than this.
What next?
Well it's pretty obvious that they are not really concerned about keeping and selling "fake" products, so it's necessary to advise others (again, and again, and ...) of the possibility of purchasing fake products from "utsource" and to check devices before the 60 days expiry time.
Actually, it would be extremely useful to have a permanent "stickie" place to post up these fakes and the companies that continue to supply them - it would save a lot of trouble.
Anybody have any other ideas?
Dear James, thanks for your email, but you bought parts on 9/27/2010, it already about 1 year, we offer 60 days full quality guarantee, if any problem in 60 days we can change or refund payment to you, but it over so long time, we can not return to our supplier and we do not have guarantee for this item. sorry again.
Davis [/COLOR]=======================================================================
Buy Electronic components,Ic,Module,Transistor at UTSOURCE YOUR ONE STOP SOURCE FOR ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS
UTSOURCE.NET power by UTSOURCE International(S) Pte.Ltd.Singapore Service Line : TEL : 0065-315-631-17
Email: sales@utsource.net
So, basically that's it - not totally unexpected really, but had hopes they would be better than this.
What next?
Well it's pretty obvious that they are not really concerned about keeping and selling "fake" products, so it's necessary to advise others (again, and again, and ...) of the possibility of purchasing fake products from "utsource" and to check devices before the 60 days expiry time.
Actually, it would be extremely useful to have a permanent "stickie" place to post up these fakes and the companies that continue to supply them - it would save a lot of trouble.
Anybody have any other ideas?
Report them to your Credit Card Company (CCC).
Write to the supplier again and tell them you are copying to the CCC.
Once the CCC become aware (and get corroboration) that the supplier is selling fake or counterfeit goods they will stop allowing that seller to use that CCC for sales. Word will soon get around to the other CCC and the seller folds.
The Seller will do much to avoid this. He might even start to negotiate his way out of impending closure.
Write to the supplier again and tell them you are copying to the CCC.
Once the CCC become aware (and get corroboration) that the supplier is selling fake or counterfeit goods they will stop allowing that seller to use that CCC for sales. Word will soon get around to the other CCC and the seller folds.
The Seller will do much to avoid this. He might even start to negotiate his way out of impending closure.
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Fakes identification
Does it mean that the real part is the ones showing an underlined lot number (as per the datasheet)? Is it a reliable way to identify the fakes or is there a simple electrical test outside an amp circuit that could be used...
Thanks
Here are a couple of shots of one's I got from Zhou, and others are using.
Does it mean that the real part is the ones showing an underlined lot number (as per the datasheet)? Is it a reliable way to identify the fakes or is there a simple electrical test outside an amp circuit that could be used...
Thanks
fab,
Zhou's look a bit like Batman's ears (in these photos) caused by a small ledge moulded into top edge of the package - the fakes are just plain edges.
The fakes have numbers and letters moulded into those circular depressions near the "ears" - Zhou's are blank.
On reverse side, Zhou's have 4 shallow circular depressions - the fakes have 3.
Don't think the numbers and underline are a reliable indicator.
So now we have fake k2013s, j313s, j74s, possible j201s - looks like they are a clearing house for fake stuff and not just the victim of dodgy suppliers - if that's so, who knows what other products they sell are also fakes.
Looking forward to seeing tested products - authenticity is the main consideration now.
Possibly it's a good lesson and lucky it only cost me about $50! Bloody irritating tho.
Zhou's look a bit like Batman's ears (in these photos) caused by a small ledge moulded into top edge of the package - the fakes are just plain edges.
The fakes have numbers and letters moulded into those circular depressions near the "ears" - Zhou's are blank.
On reverse side, Zhou's have 4 shallow circular depressions - the fakes have 3.
Don't think the numbers and underline are a reliable indicator.
So now we have fake k2013s, j313s, j74s, possible j201s - looks like they are a clearing house for fake stuff and not just the victim of dodgy suppliers - if that's so, who knows what other products they sell are also fakes.
Looking forward to seeing tested products - authenticity is the main consideration now.
Possibly it's a good lesson and lucky it only cost me about $50! Bloody irritating tho.
Thanks jh!
From the details you have provided, mines are probably genuine then. Lucky me I bought them on ebay...
So when the fakes manufacturers will perfectly imitate the genuine package are we doomed
Fab
There's a good article about detecting fakes here - sorry I can't add a direct link.
American Electronic Resource - Global Parts Search - "Detection of Counterfeit Electronic Components"
I think the Fakes industry is here to stay - just theft under another name - the main thing is for the suppliers to either refund or replace faulty stock and also discard the 'bad' stock - many companies do this very well - others don't - eBay is guesswork altho many diy suppliers are excellent.
The best thing about the GBs is that the devices are tested, are genuine, and usually a lot cheaper than suppliers like RS, Farnell, etc
Hopefully, both Zhou and Buzzforb can get stock of these very useful fets - as Nelson says, "recommended".
American Electronic Resource - Global Parts Search - "Detection of Counterfeit Electronic Components"
I think the Fakes industry is here to stay - just theft under another name - the main thing is for the suppliers to either refund or replace faulty stock and also discard the 'bad' stock - many companies do this very well - others don't - eBay is guesswork altho many diy suppliers are excellent.
The best thing about the GBs is that the devices are tested, are genuine, and usually a lot cheaper than suppliers like RS, Farnell, etc
Hopefully, both Zhou and Buzzforb can get stock of these very useful fets - as Nelson says, "recommended".
A friend of mine ordered a batch of 2sk2013/2sj313 from utsource.com ten days ago. They arrived today and he brought them to me, for genuinity check. I measured the transfer curve (Id vs. Vgs) and they comply to datasheet - with about 10% dispersion (for example, at 0.3A, Vgs varies from 2.8 to 3.1V) which is OK.
This is how they look:
This is how they look:
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