Power Supply
Nelson
Because I'm injecting power supply noise through the bootstrap resistor to the input signal?
Any suggestions to alleviate this aside from the "very quiet power supply", perhaps forgetting about bootstrapping.....
On the left mosfet I have the drain and source lettering around the wrong way, sorry about that.
Regards
Ejam
Nelson
Because I'm injecting power supply noise through the bootstrap resistor to the input signal?
Any suggestions to alleviate this aside from the "very quiet power supply", perhaps forgetting about bootstrapping.....
On the left mosfet I have the drain and source lettering around the wrong way, sorry about that.
Regards
Ejam
Is the attached figure that you report?
Also if the load is connect from the drain sides, it isn't consequential to have voltage amplification.
Then, where are connected the input signals? I not view.
This is most relevant in this circuit to have gain voltage.
However, in this figure, if you look at the amplitudes of the input and output signal you can see that they are the same, so John not meant to show voltage amplification, i think.
Francesco
Attachments
No, the input is referenced to Ground, but the gain of
each Mosfet is referenced between the input and the +
rail of each device. Any noise in the supply will be amplified.
Nelson
OK so now its two stages instead of one, and around we go again. There is nothing like being poorly rejected by your power supply to dent your budding zen designer fantasies. See what Mark comes up with. To Zen or not to Zen that is the Pass enigma.
Francesco
By the way Francesco, cool amp, learnt a little about design and Italian along the way, hence it is the journey etc. etc. Is it possible to do away with the jfet stage, as I thought you said your amp was single stage only, not two. Probably not, same problem with power supply noise.
OK so now its two stages instead of one, and around we go again. There is nothing like being poorly rejected by your power supply to dent your budding zen designer fantasies. See what Mark comes up with. To Zen or not to Zen that is the Pass enigma.
Francesco
By the way Francesco, cool amp, learnt a little about design and Italian along the way, hence it is the journey etc. etc. Is it possible to do away with the jfet stage, as I thought you said your amp was single stage only, not two. Probably not, same problem with power supply noise.
Thanks much for your appraisal.
Another great its advantage is in my mind, that people can drive this circuit with one unbalanced signal. How many people have balanced source in their set stereo?
Circlotron need 2 balanced input, so at the end it's necessary another phase splitter stage. How is good? how many is balanced and symmetrical? How to realize it? How other many parts need?
I think this last is very delicate on the final result over the same power stage.
At least with my referred circuit one people can save one stage.
Now about my patent.
People must understand that when look my circuit they not think as simply circuit stage, but as a "whole power amplifier".
0ne guy can put a source signal from his CD player or tape in the input amplifier and wired its output to the speaker.
Francesco.
Since the two bank of power supply are applied in opposite phase to the circuit (output terminal), also the power noise is in opposition, so you must match these last to cancel or lower the noise at the output.
Its not enough to put caps of equal value (their tolerances are high generally), but you must make a real measure of the two noise side.
Regards, Francesco.
Last edited:
Take a look at ZV5, which has the same situation on the
noise because the topology has many similairities.
I'm not really working on a single-stage variation. Well, not on purpose, anyway. Although, I'll probably continue to use them to illustrate my meditations.
I built a single-stage version with a quiet power supply as Nelson suggested and it worked fine. (But, by adding a scant few parts it becomes the Amazing FET version which works a lot better.)
But now that I've done that, I'm expanding my horizons a bit and allowing myself the luxury of multiple stages, different devices, maybe a transformer or two, maybe even multiple power supplies, and let's not forget lightbulbs. It's the journey, right?
There's a Zen quote: (or at least I think it's a Zen quote) 'It is easy to be a holy man on the top of a mountain.' At some point you just have to slap some parts on a piece of plywood or a cakepan and see what makes smoke and what makes music.
Pleasant journey,
Mike
Last edited:
Mark
You obviously haven't seen my garage (which includes your amp on a wooden board....somewhere) or my wife's look whenever she enters. Bemused, horrified and forgiving all at once. Admittedly, it's full of mostly tube prototypes and parts but none the less I'm getting there with the three legged fuses. Sensitive little guys that get sand kicked in their faces by the 845 gang that hang out at the 1200V power supply. I like to know a little bit more before applying the voltage.
Ejam
You obviously haven't seen my garage (which includes your amp on a wooden board....somewhere) or my wife's look whenever she enters. Bemused, horrified and forgiving all at once. Admittedly, it's full of mostly tube prototypes and parts but none the less I'm getting there with the three legged fuses. Sensitive little guys that get sand kicked in their faces by the 845 gang that hang out at the 1200V power supply. I like to know a little bit more before applying the voltage.
Ejam
Interesting Read
Francesco
Go to the http://www.tubecad.com/articles_2003/Cars_Planes_Circlotrons/Cars_planes_circlotrons.pdf
At the end of the article there is circuit F in the summary which is I believe is similar to what you are trying to do with the output ground referencing.
Regards
Francesco
Go to the http://www.tubecad.com/articles_2003/Cars_Planes_Circlotrons/Cars_planes_circlotrons.pdf
At the end of the article there is circuit F in the summary which is I believe is similar to what you are trying to do with the output ground referencing.
Regards
Interesting article, but i think is valid my answer in post 22, yet.
from pag.4 of JB Art.
"Both triodes, top and bottom,
can simultaneously function as grounded-cathode
amplifiers or as cathode followers, depending on
the driver stage’s configuration in relation to the
output stage."
You must look at the connections between driver stage and circlotron to realize a full grounded cathode circlotron. Looking as a "stand-alone stage" nobody can tell if the power stage have or not have voltage amplification.
Then
As you tell me fig. A,B,C,D,E,F, etc. show only how we can shift the ground reference, we see to change only the internal relations, but the circuit remain to run the same. Now, relatively how we where putting the gnd we must assure to drive it suitably (but these figures are related only and always in the world of a conventional follower circlotron).
On the other hand, i not think should be one advantage to use circlotron with gain in tube amp (except for ULTRASOUND), because of the very high output impedance.
Francesco.
The jouney must go
If this is a journey as says Mike, we must go forwad.
So with the permission of Mr Nelson Pass which was my angel in Solid State (and Mr. kiyoaki Imai for tubes), i would illustrate in the next, how the circlotron gain stage and the Balanced Son of Zen are dynamically equal or at least more similar with the only difference of a more efficiency for circlotron circuit (imho).
Please do'nt kill me!!!!
Francesco.
If this is a journey as says Mike, we must go forwad.
So with the permission of Mr Nelson Pass which was my angel in Solid State (and Mr. kiyoaki Imai for tubes), i would illustrate in the next, how the circlotron gain stage and the Balanced Son of Zen are dynamically equal or at least more similar
with the only difference of a more efficiency for circlotron circuit (imho). Please do'nt kill me!!!!
Francesco.
Okay, i am going ahead.
In the below figure there is the simplified version of Son of Zen schematic, without Susy and Bias, because here is not relevant.
How we know also that:
V1=V2
RC1=RC2
T1=T2
Note as RC1 and RC2 are necessary to have output swing and to set the DC Drain voltage of T1 and T2 at about 1/2 of V1 and V2.
Francesco.
In the below figure there is the simplified version of Son of Zen schematic, without Susy and Bias, because here is not relevant.
How we know also that:
V1=V2
RC1=RC2
T1=T2
Note as RC1 and RC2 are necessary to have output swing and to set the DC Drain voltage of T1 and T2 at about 1/2 of V1 and V2.
Francesco.
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.