Output capacitor for Zen v4

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frags

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Joined 2009
#1
I'm stuck trying to choose output capacitor for zen v4. I'm considering the
following options:
1. Single cap Nichicon FW (Audio) 10000uF
2. Single cap Panasonic TSHA 10000uF
3. 20 caps Panasonic FM 560uF in parallel
Which options will be the best? Or I should find something like Jensen or Elna.
Please help.
 
#4
Magura,
This is not that advise I expected to get but thanks anyway.

I'm not trying to be "at the top". I'm trying to get a decent sound using components I can easily get for affordable price (most of them from digikey). As well it should fit the amplifier case.

Some people say that connecting two electrolytes with back-to-back can give pretty good "film-like" capacitor with high capacitance. I'll try two Nichicon KZ.
 
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#5
frags said:
Magura,
This is not that advise I expected to get but thanks anyway.

I'm not trying to be "at the top". I'm trying to get a decent sound using components I can easily get for affordable price (most of them from digikey). As well it should fit the amplifier case.

Some people say that connecting two electrolytes with back-to-back can give pretty good "film-like" capacitor with high capacitance. I'll try two Nichicon KZ.
Click to expand...

This suggestion is CHEAPER! than your own, and sure either digikey has such, or the local electro-mechanic sure does.

EDIT: Regarding size, this is also not gonna break the deal. Look up the data-sheets, and you'll see.

Heck, we are talking 30 usd or so.


Magura 🙂
 
#10
Magura said:
....add a Rifa PEH-169 of say 680uF, and you're at the top.
Click to expand...

Surely you must be joking. Just calculate the reactance of 680 µF at, say, 20 Hz and the question answers itself. Off course, the ZEN V4 has feedback and that will correct the frequency response to an extend, but ...

Also, I am led to believe that the distortion of the cap will increase with lower frequencies so at the bottom end it is a good idea to have some margin, if at all err on the high side of capacitance.

That said, the big RIFA caps and - probably even better - the big Epcos SIKOREL caps should be an excellent choice. Compared to the snap-in caps they have much lower series inductance and thus a higher resonant frequency. Many small caps in parallel are even better in that respect, but you need to add the trace inductance and must take care that they share the current. To minimise this the best way is to use two copper planes on your PCB, i.e. a + and a - plane and have all caps connect to the same planes. Not sure if that explains itself but take a look at chapter 4 "Series and parallel connections" in the following capacitor application guide: http://www.evoxrifa.com/electrolytic_cat/electrolytic_appguide.pdf

I cannot comment on any possible sonic differences as I have not tried options yet but I am at least planning on using multiple paralel caps on my next amp (F3 ?) whereas my current V4 has just one big snap-in type Vishay cap and a bypass of 10 µF.

Just my 2 cents
 
#16
I use 8, 6 and 4 ohm speaker systems. Most of them have multiple drivers. The reactive load of a speaker can drop very low at certain frequencys and i find that anything under 10,000 uF for an output capacitor is too small. The result is a lack of bass that makes the music sound like a gramaphone. You get the same problem using cheap caps with a high series resistance. Personally i start at two paralleled 4700uF epos caps then go up from there 😀


Leigh
 
#17
I experimented a lot with output caps in both Zen4 and Zen9, and found that Zen9 produces better bass all other conditions being equal. Even I tried using IGBT transistors (BUP314) in Zen4. In the last case, bass is enough (bjt-like sound), but the highs became less transparent.
 
#18
Also I would like to add: Be Afraid Of Big Electrolytics In Signal Path, irrespective of type and manufacturer. After several years of searches and attempts I see only one reliable solution - take 20 pcs of 1000uf Low-ESR and low dielectric losses caps. Elna Cerafine would be the best, maybe Nichicon KZ, but any others assigned for computer boards applications and rated at 100kHz would also do. Assemble it in 5x4 configuration, connect it closer to center point. Give some burn-in period. This results in almost no sound coloration. Parasitic inductance of internal wiring, being pure inductance, adds nothing wrong. Any big electrolyte affects sound in such a way, that any reasonable shunt improves situation only partially. I suppose (this is only one among many possible reasons) that big caps has mechanical self-resonant frequencies in few kHz range. Sometimes one even able to listen how a big cap sing, during tests with signal generator at high enough powers.
 
#19
Hi.

I'm using (well, not right now...) my ZenV4s to drive a pair of these:
Dynaudio - Authentic Fidelity
Sensitivity (2.83 V/1 m): 86 dB
Impedance, Nominal: 4 ohms
Impedance, (20-200 Hz): 3.1 - 7.2 ohms
Impedance, (200-20 kHz): 3.8 - 7.8 ohms
Frequency Response (+/- 3 dB): 28 Hz - 24 kHz

Since I want to change the 2 10.000 µF 50V Elkos in my Denon-receiver (slightly deformed), I thought about putting bigger caps into my Zens and put the 10.000 µF 50V-ones currently installed into the receiver.

Does anybody think that would be a good idea or are the 10.000 µF capacitors just fine, even for these low-impedance speakers?
 
#20
Luda,

I would gently say that those speakers are not the best choice for Zen amplifiers and increasing the output caps will not significantly improve the performance (unless you are running Zen at something like 4A bias).
You're better to get something like F5.
 
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