The Aleph "Ge" - Germanium Preamplifer - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Pass Labs

Pass Labs This forum is dedicated to Pass Labs discussion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th June 2009, 04:12 PM   #1
Bakmeel is offline Bakmeel  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Bakmeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Cool The Aleph "Ge" - Germanium Preamplifer

Hello All,
After my Aleph Ono (finished 5 years ago) and Aleph 2 monoblocks (finished 4 months ago) I am ready for my next project, which is to become a Preamplifer / DAC combo. In this thread I would like to focus on the design of the Preamplifer part; the rest is to be done later and is in principle an independent section.

Through a good friend of mine, I got a nice collection of Germanium transistors: both signal and power devices, which are types that seem to be quite popular in audio equipment (mostly guitar amplifiers). These are the original devices made in the early '70-s.

Perhaps less convenient is the fact that they are all P-type transistors, and I have only 4 types available in limited quantities (but sufficient to make a few matched pairs):

- AC125 (Vce=12V, hfe=50 @ 2mA, TD=500mW @25C)
- AC128 (Vce=16V, hfe=125 @ 50mA, TD=700mW @25C)
- GD170 (Vce=30V, Ic=3A, hfe=110, TD=6W)
- GD241B (Vce=40V, Ic=3A, TD=10W)

Information on these devices is quite scarce; only datasheetarchive has some info on the AC125 and AC128 devices. Netlist provided me some data on the GD's. I intend to put the devices on a curve tracer anyway to get some "real life" data, but this will most likely result in a better setting of bias currents.

For now, I am drawing the schematics in terms of architecture. I would like to get your inputs on how to keep the design as close as possible to the "Aleph" mindset, while porting the design to Germanium BJT devices.

Below is my first iteration: It is mostly derived from the Aleph P so far, but it is my intention to arrive on a balanced design, for example Aleph L. I was thinking to take things step by step, knowing that I am limited to P devices only.

Your inputs are appreciated!
Bouke


So here is: The first iteration of "Aleph Ge"
Attached Images
File Type: gif se.gif (10.7 KB, 698 views)
__________________
More Power Igor! More Power!
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2009, 07:17 PM   #2
Bakmeel is offline Bakmeel  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Bakmeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Hmmm... no responses at all... Is that a bad sign?

All right then, let's up the stakes a bit... I've made a quick lookover and transferred it into a balanced version... A bit like Aleph P, but without the lower current sources... I've replaced those with a resistor.
Attached Images
File Type: gif balanced v1.gif (18.8 KB, 543 views)
__________________
More Power Igor! More Power!
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th June 2009, 10:48 PM   #3
The one and only
 
Nelson Pass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Both circuits appear to be followers without voltage gain.

Is this what you intended?

  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 07:40 PM   #4
Bakmeel is offline Bakmeel  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Bakmeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Netherlands
No, I was hoping to get some gain... In the order of 17 - 20dB. It is supposed to be followed by a relay attenuator circuit.

Most of the resistor values are quite preliminary so far... I need to measure a few transistors to get Vbe data and such. I haven't been able to simulate the circuit in SPICE so far.

I suppose then the mistake is in the lower transistor. I tried to transport the Aleph L (v1.0) design to PNP transistors... The CCS in the Aleph L is P-channel and PNP, but the gain device is N-channel.... I guess I biased it wrong?
__________________
More Power Igor! More Power!
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 08:17 PM   #5
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Zen Mod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ancient Batsch , behind Iron Curtain
CCS-es down , active up ;

that way you'll have gain

(if load (CCS) is in emiter , you have no gain )
__________________
my Papa is smarter than your Nelson !
clean thread; Cook Book;PSM LS Cook Book;Baby DiyA ;Mighty ZM's Bloggg;Papatreasure;Papa... by Mighty ZM
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 11:02 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dallas
I can easily see advantages in certain circumstance for changing
the comparator over to germanium. The lower threshold voltage
of the germanium emitter can make for a very low dropout CCS.
Or emitter coupled base follower with a very low voltage offset.

But I can't as easily make a case for changing the power device
over to germanium. MOSFET and/or IGBT rule that department.
Leave well enough alone. But if you must go there, there is a
thread by Keantoken in the solid state area. I believe the Aleph
MOSFET is replaced by Sziklai pair, he was calling that "Allison".
I don't know any history on the Allison circuit.

I'll abuse one of my old schematics for example, chosen mostly
for sake of simplicity: If germanium thresholds had been used
here, much smaller quiescent set resistors would be needed.
With a resulting increase in damping factor.

I have both NPN and PNP germaniums, but they are far from
"complimentary". I did do some cherry pick HFE matching, but
not sure if the meter I borrowed that day was appropriate
for measuring germanium HFEs. Probably doesn't matter in
this application anyway, only the emitter's forward voltage.
Attached Images
File Type: gif ecalephs1.gif (47.5 KB, 327 views)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? JohnS Solid State 51 13th December 2009 06:42 PM
Aleph 4 - Simulation Results from "Circuitmaker" tiefbassuebertr Pass Labs 0 17th July 2009 11:53 PM
Aleph-X smaal EU "small-parts" groupbuy Sander Group Buys 3 3rd December 2008 11:48 AM
What are "good" sounding resistors for my aleph p Shaun Perez Pass Labs 6 29th July 2003 01:46 PM
Aleph "L" Stepped attenuator on the input or the output? Mark A. Gulbrandsen Pass Labs 6 13th March 2003 12:21 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:51 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2