Choosing Amps for a 5 Way Active Horn System

[KCCT82]

For your compression drivers I would recommend that you look at F1, F2, F3, Zen 4 or Zen 7. The way I read the manuals on F1/F2 they might be spot on.

For your cone drivers I would look at F5 due to the higher damping. Maybe run balanced F5 on the woofers to get more headroom.

Anyway - it is a long way from zero to five amps. Start by picking one design, make one amp and evaluate before you move on.

Have fun.

Hello Yggdrasil- BIG THANKS, it's nice to have more to choose from, I'll get started on reading Zen amps.

Oh heck it'll be a long way from 0-1! I major in fine art, the farthest possible major from speaker/amp building. Perhaps I should just do the industrial design part

 

[tinitus]

I still don't know if F5 will be powerful enough to drive my tapped horns though...

No, I dont think it will

Actually, Im not even sure its good fore your basshorns either
Those are big woofers, and even if high sensitivity, they still need power

Fore woofers, maybe take a look at Earthquakes new amp, the small one, its cheap and quite interesting
But theres also one with built in eq

 

[tnargs]

..... I'm sure you can guess the reason for horns

Actually, I could easily guess wrongly. My reasons for horns don't seem to be the same as yours.

The usual reasons for horns are:
- high SPLs across a big stadium
- reasonable SPLs out of pre-bought or pre-built flea power amps
- pro-horn bias or philosophy

The first two are practical but don't apply to you, and the third is unnecessary, which makes it something you said you want to minimize ...

PS I just noticed you posted in the Pass Labs forum. Is that a restriction you want to see in this thread?

 

[limono]

The only reason horns aren't more popular is cost and size but it's such superior topology if done right.

 

[KCCT82]

My reasons for horns don't seem to be the same as yours.

The usual reasons for horns are:
- high SPLs across a big stadium
- reasonable SPLs out of pre-bought or pre-built flea power amps
- pro-horn bias or philosophy

The first two are practical but don't apply to you, and the third is unnecessary, which makes it something you said you want to minimize ...

PS I just noticed you posted in the Pass Labs forum. Is that a restriction you want to see in this thread?

Hi Tnargs, Limono said it for me... "The only reason horns aren't more popular is cost and size but it's such superior topology if done right." My horn system is where I "maximize", efficiency is what I'm talking about

Umm... yeah please try to stay on amps here, I need the help. The anything goes thread: My DIY 5 Way Active Horn System

The only reason horns aren't more popular is cost and size but it's such superior topology if done right.

That's what I'm trying to prove to myself

 

[KCCT82]

No, I dont think it will

Actually, Im not even sure its good fore your basshorns either
Those are big woofers, and even if high sensitivity, they still need power

Fore woofers, maybe take a look at Earthquakes new amp, the small one, its cheap and quite interesting
But theres also one with built in eq

Thanks, I'll take it slowly, probably start with 1 F3 or F5 and see if signal/power is enough for compression drivers, then swap to midbass then tapped horns. Oh, and somewhere in the 6moon review it says the next 3 "F" will be mono blocks, hope they'll suit my need.

 

[DougL]

A couple of thoughts from the Peanut Gallery.

Currently, I am running a 3 way Active Open Baffle speaker with a 93 db 8 ohm mid, 2 * 90 db 8 ohm woofers ( 93 db, 2.88 V @ 4 ohms) and a 94 db tweeter.
This runs with 6 channel by 30W class D amp.
I can make my ears ring with this and I have never clipped it.
This is with 4 db of eq for under 60 hz.

Unless you are playing to 10,000 of your closest friends at your local outdoor venue, you probably need less power than I do.
I would not worry about more than 25 watts for any driver.

Several other random thoughts:
F1 through F5 all share the same power supply, and the same general heat sink requirements.
You could build A prototype Case / PS and populate it with any one of the 5 F series, so you could try both the F3 and F5.
Probably easiest to EQ if all 5 amps are identical.

 

[KCCT82]

Currently, I am running a 3 way Active Open Baffle speaker with a 93 db 8 ohm mid, 2 * 90 db 8 ohm woofers ( 93 db, 2.88 V @ 4 ohms) and a 94 db tweeter.
This runs with 6 channel by 30W class D amp...
I would not worry about more than 25 watts for any driver.

Several other random thoughts:
F1 through F5 all share the same power supply, and the same general heat sink requirements.
You could build A prototype Case / PS and populate it with any one of the 5 F series, so you could try both the F3 and F5.
Probably easiest to EQ if all 5 amps are identical.

Thanks DougL- I'm not sure, but your 30W class D has way more voltage gain than FW amps, right? While 25W is only 5W less than your amps, how will the 10+db less voltage gain affect the outcome? Good tip on the "prototype Case / PS"!

Regards

 

[yggdrasil]

how will the 10+db less voltage gain affect the outcome?

That depends entirely on preamp output.

 

[DougL]

how will the 10+db less voltage gain affect the outcome?

The Firstwatt voltage amplifiers with the exception of the F4 all have enough gain to reach full output with 2 V rms that a sound card will put out. The DCX2496 is capable of putting out somewhat more than 2 volts rms depending on cabling.

I can assure you that an F1/F2 will also have plenty of gain for a 110 db, 16 ohm driver.

My question to you is, what size is your room and what are your goals?

I aim for 105 db 1 meter for headroom.

Doug

 

[KCCT82]

The Firstwatt voltage amplifiers with the exception of the F4 all have enough gain to reach full output with 2 V rms that a sound card will put out.

My question to you is, what size is your room and what are your goals?
Doug

Thanks DougL,

There are 3 settings for the RME card's outputs:
Input/Output level for 0 dBFS @ Hi Gain: +19 dBu
Input/Output level for 0 dBFS @ +4 dBu: +13 dBu
Input/Output level for 0 dBFS @ -10 dBV: +2 dBV

If I'm correct than the lowest +2dBV setting will only give me 1.26volts (RMS), will that be enough? I'm just afraid higher settings won't be good (assuming "gain" is bad, or RME's "gain" is bad).

The size of the room is around 800sq ft with 12.5ft ceiling. My goal is to have enough head room without creating unnecessary gain in the electronics. I don't care about MAX db level, I just want "enough" for 1 seat at 10-12ft away. By enough I mean full dynamic range of all kinds of music at healthy listening volume. Thank you~

Best Regards

 

[brianco]

Are you SERIOUS...?

I have seen some pretty way out concepts...but this takes the biscuit! If you ARE determined to do this and have the time and money and SKILL and KNOWLEDGE to make it work, then I will be the first to applaud and congratulate you. But in your first post you claim to have little expertise/knowledge..........

However, if you don't have all of these - but have the money, then go buy a speaker setup which really sounds truly great to you - like the best you have ever heard. After all, it can't sound worse than the stuff you were reared on. When did you last go to listen to LIVE music? And how often have you heard live music? Go and listen again and again and again.

What you propose - because of the number of crossover points, the number of driver units, the number of horns to be calculated and built - is frankly close to impossibility.

If you have already conceived, designed and built a 2 speaker/horn speaker that really works better than that which you can buy for $3000, and then a four....etc, you are either being quaintly funny - or .... well, whatever is the least offensive way of putting it.... BUT I SMELL RED HERRING.

Regarding amps, which after all is the basis of your thread, use good triodes, with inter-stage transformers aplenty, Telefunken/Siemens VT4c tubes (preferably ex. German WW11 Airforce or, better US Signal Corps Western Electrics.)

You will need a few of these amps but it should sound better than an Apple job in a dock. Shame you cant have it at home though.

 

[limono]

nahh , you're just beeing jealous .There is no 2-way which could provide unrestricted dynamic in that space. Not for $3000 and not for $30000. With $200000 (for speakers and amps) maybe.