Drool over this you guys.
http://cgi.ebay.com:80/Threshold-Mo...ryZ67786QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cheers George
http://cgi.ebay.com:80/Threshold-Mo...ryZ67786QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cheers George
This one is $148,000 used.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1241563585&/Edge-NL-Reference
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1241563585&/Edge-NL-Reference
OK, I have to ask... I love good sounding music, BUT can an audio system REALLY sound worth $148,000, or even $21,000 
. I'm open to hear what others say, but I have a hard time believing that $21,000 will bring a person an audio experience worthy of that investment. Although I make a decent living, that much money is WAY beyond what I could ever let myself consider. Again, I'm open to hear something worth that much. Maybe I need to hear one to understand, but I just don't see it. 
Anyone with that kind of system near North Dakota willing to educate me???
Mike
. I'm open to hear what others say, but I have a hard time believing that $21,000 will bring a person an audio experience worthy of that investment. Although I make a decent living, that much money is WAY beyond what I could ever let myself consider. Again, I'm open to hear something worth that much. Maybe I need to hear one to understand, but I just don't see it. Anyone with that kind of system near North Dakota willing to educate me???
Mike
There are two things that often become intertwined in peoples' minds as one question:
1) Does it sound different? (In this case, the presumption is better, obviously.)
2) Is it worth the money?
In this case, you have stated the second question explicitly, and I'll assume that you mean it literally--that the first question isn't lurking, hidden, inside the second.
A meal can be had for free if you're willing to get it out of a dumpster. If you posit that the dumpster is directly behind the restaurant that made the meal you can have a direct apples-to-apples comparison between the free version and the one you pay hard currency for inside.
So they're the same, aren't they?
Well, yes...and no. In the case of the dumpster meal (let's say for the sake of argument that the restaurant sells fast food), it started out pretty close to identical to the meal you'd buy inside. The same meat in the hamburger patty, sourced from the same vendor. The same brand of mustard, squirted on in the same amount. The same sesame seed bun bragged about in the commercials. So it's the same.
Only it's not, is it?
The dumpster burger is cold and the grease has congealed. The person who originally bought the thing added, for reasons we shall never know, an entire pack of salt to the thing. Then there's the vinegar that dribbled on it from the salad thrown on top of it in the trash.
And let's not get started on whatever germs the person might have left behind...
Okay, so a fast food burger doesn't sound particularly appetizing to you right at this moment. How about the steakhouse a block farther down the street? No dumpsters this time. Inside, fresh, hot off the grill, served with garlic bread and a baked potato. Sound good? It does to me, but then I'm a meat-n'-taters kind of guy. But what's this? It costs five, maybe ten times as much to eat a steak?
Waitaminnit! What kind of racket is this?
It's just nourishment, right? I mean, really...why should a steak cost more than hamburger? The meat comes from the same kind of animal. In fact, it may even have come from the very same animal, just a different part. But it costs more.
Why?
Answer that question, and all the implied ones that come along with it, and you will have at least the beginnings of an answer as to whether an audio system that costs $1000 is any better than a table radio, whether a $2500 system is better than the $1000 one, and so forth.
Grey
1) Does it sound different? (In this case, the presumption is better, obviously.)
2) Is it worth the money?
In this case, you have stated the second question explicitly, and I'll assume that you mean it literally--that the first question isn't lurking, hidden, inside the second.
A meal can be had for free if you're willing to get it out of a dumpster. If you posit that the dumpster is directly behind the restaurant that made the meal you can have a direct apples-to-apples comparison between the free version and the one you pay hard currency for inside.
So they're the same, aren't they?
Well, yes...and no. In the case of the dumpster meal (let's say for the sake of argument that the restaurant sells fast food), it started out pretty close to identical to the meal you'd buy inside. The same meat in the hamburger patty, sourced from the same vendor. The same brand of mustard, squirted on in the same amount. The same sesame seed bun bragged about in the commercials. So it's the same.
Only it's not, is it?
The dumpster burger is cold and the grease has congealed. The person who originally bought the thing added, for reasons we shall never know, an entire pack of salt to the thing. Then there's the vinegar that dribbled on it from the salad thrown on top of it in the trash.
And let's not get started on whatever germs the person might have left behind...
Okay, so a fast food burger doesn't sound particularly appetizing to you right at this moment. How about the steakhouse a block farther down the street? No dumpsters this time. Inside, fresh, hot off the grill, served with garlic bread and a baked potato. Sound good? It does to me, but then I'm a meat-n'-taters kind of guy. But what's this? It costs five, maybe ten times as much to eat a steak?
Waitaminnit! What kind of racket is this?
It's just nourishment, right? I mean, really...why should a steak cost more than hamburger? The meat comes from the same kind of animal. In fact, it may even have come from the very same animal, just a different part. But it costs more.
Why?
Answer that question, and all the implied ones that come along with it, and you will have at least the beginnings of an answer as to whether an audio system that costs $1000 is any better than a table radio, whether a $2500 system is better than the $1000 one, and so forth.
Grey
Had I not spent the day replacing the pump in my well (140 feet deep...and I have to pull the critter up by hand...man, I'm gonna be sore tomorrow) and all the attendant aggravation and expense, I'd offer to take 2 ch at $1800 ea. Can't even build the damned things for that, hardly...especially w/chassis.
(But I might feel the urge to...um...fiddle with them. Got some ideas that might fit into a chassis that size. [Maybe.])
(No, I've not given in to the impulse to modify my S-500s. The quarter-Farad cap bank I've mentioned elsewhere is not currently in use and with the exception of servicing a channel that went down once upon a time, they're exactly as they were when they left the factory. Yes, even the PS caps...)
Grey
P.S.: Nelson, I'm drinking Californian tonight: Whitehall Lane Cabernet '96. Signature or whatever they call their uppity, hoity-toity line. Thirteen years old and it's about as ready as you could ask for. I've got one more bottle. Need to drink it while it's at/near its peak.
Let's hear it for California Big Cabs...
(But I might feel the urge to...um...fiddle with them. Got some ideas that might fit into a chassis that size. [Maybe.])
(No, I've not given in to the impulse to modify my S-500s. The quarter-Farad cap bank I've mentioned elsewhere is not currently in use and with the exception of servicing a channel that went down once upon a time, they're exactly as they were when they left the factory. Yes, even the PS caps...)
Grey
P.S.: Nelson, I'm drinking Californian tonight: Whitehall Lane Cabernet '96. Signature or whatever they call their uppity, hoity-toity line. Thirteen years old and it's about as ready as you could ask for. I've got one more bottle. Need to drink it while it's at/near its peak.
Let's hear it for California Big Cabs...
Also lot of power... like 100 amps is like OMG, you need a dedicated second house power line just for it)
I bet my amp power supply is better and my amp has better specs... but just imagine 100 amp power
it must compensate somewhere
Why not?
Grollins : you make me totally jealous... how do you store you wine???
Here in Ottawa wine sucks! Its very expensive and no place to store it... I have nice 2006 coming this summer; ill have to drink it all in one or two months((((
I bet my amp power supply is better and my amp has better specs... but just imagine 100 amp power
it must compensate somewhere Why not?
Grollins : you make me totally jealous... how do you store you wine???
Here in Ottawa wine sucks! Its very expensive and no place to store it... I have nice 2006 coming this summer; ill have to drink it all in one or two months
((((amp-guy said:
One: How did you arrive at the sum of $148,000? I just checked and the auction is still sitting at $21k.
Two: Edge? Er...try Threshold.
Gabdx1 said:
Also lot of power... like 100 amps is like OMG, you need a dedicated second house power line just for it)
I bet my amp power supply is better and my amp has better specs... but just imagine 100 amp power
Why not?
Grollins : you make me totally jealous... how do you store you wine???
One: You're losing sight of the fact that this is higher current at a lower voltage. That's what power transformers do...trade voltage for current.
Two: If you believe that THD is everything then go with Nikko stuff from the '70s.
Three: This one is so simple it hurts. Build a wine cellar? No. Buy a dedicated wine chiller? No. Get a second-hand refrigerator and put an external thermostat on it. Yes. You can get the fridge for free and the external thermostat for about $30-40. Ta-da! Storage for about 200 bottles for the cost of the thermostat. I have multiple modified fridges sitting side-by-side in my basement.
dzzmiller said:
And how many times could you pay John Coltrane to come play for you?
Zero. He's dead.
Jimi Hendrix?
Zero. He's dead.
Rachmaninoff at the piano?
Zero. He's dead.
And the full Chicago Symphony Orchestra...even assuming that your house was big enough to hold them all?
Aaargh!
Think, people, think!
Grey
Actually the ad claims that the new price is $148,000.00
sorry for adding the cents column but I don,t see the sense in this way way over the top gear. 800 watts into 8 ohms is a lot but certainly not unheard of even going back as far as the Mac MC3500 which if I remember correctly (it's been over 20 years since Several of us hoisted one onto my bench) would do something around 1.2kw. The edge amps do get good reviews in the rags though.
Is this the greatest hobby or what!
sorry for adding the cents column but I don,t see the sense in this way way over the top gear. 800 watts into 8 ohms is a lot but certainly not unheard of even going back as far as the Mac MC3500 which if I remember correctly (it's been over 20 years since Several of us hoisted one onto my bench) would do something around 1.2kw. The edge amps do get good reviews in the rags though.
Is this the greatest hobby or what!
If you think it's all about wattage, then substitute something like Phase Linear for Nikko in my comment above and be happy with mid-fi sound.
There are people who think that $2.99/bottle wine is as good as it gets. My point of view is thus: By all means, feel free to drink $2.99 wine. But what on earth do you gain by criticizing those who spend (gasp!) $29.99 on a bottle?
Last night I had a Californian cabernet sauvignon. Tonight, I had a '95 Bordeaux. (Anniversary of my daughter coming home from the hospital after being born. She spent ages in NICU; in pre-technological times, we'd have lost her.) I don't drink wines like this every night. In fact, most nights we drink something like Yellow Tail, but that doesn't mean I don't know that there are better things out there. I have self-imposed limits as to how much I'll spend on a bottle of wine, but that doesn't mean that I criticize those who choose--and can afford--to spend more.
Sounds like sour grapes (...ahem...) to me.
Grey
There are people who think that $2.99/bottle wine is as good as it gets. My point of view is thus: By all means, feel free to drink $2.99 wine. But what on earth do you gain by criticizing those who spend (gasp!) $29.99 on a bottle?
Last night I had a Californian cabernet sauvignon. Tonight, I had a '95 Bordeaux. (Anniversary of my daughter coming home from the hospital after being born. She spent ages in NICU; in pre-technological times, we'd have lost her.) I don't drink wines like this every night. In fact, most nights we drink something like Yellow Tail, but that doesn't mean I don't know that there are better things out there. I have self-imposed limits as to how much I'll spend on a bottle of wine, but that doesn't mean that I criticize those who choose--and can afford--to spend more.
Sounds like sour grapes (...ahem...) to me.
Grey
I drink Yellow Tail for the same reasons, but it is basically good enough to keep me quite happy most of the time. (I'm talking about their Shiraz actually.) The Edge at $148K or the Threshold at $21K (although there are a bunch of them) is a little bit rich for my blood. My entire diy system and the renovation costs of the room it lives in is significantly less than the lower price listed. I think at this price point relative exclusivity starts to play a pretty significant role in the purchasing decisions of those with the resources to play at this price point. In all likelihood the speakers paired with such an amplifier would be very limited production exotics from one of the current Stereophile Class A speaker recommendations and might cost even more.. I have heard systems that retailed at more than 10X what it cost me to build my entire system including learning and making a few mistakes along the way. These systems offered a level of fit and finish (and industrial design) that I could not reasonably hope to match with my skill levels, but to my considerable surprise what I heard was not necessarily something that I would want to live with long term. In many cases the high costs of this sort of gear primes expectations, and I suspect the dealers and prospective owners often ascribe qualities to this level of gear that frankly most mere mortals (trained audiophile or not) would be hard pressed to identify.
The Edge is well regarded amongst those who can afford the extreme high end, some of whom I respect. Statement products generally are very limited production, have much engineering and design resources lavished on them, use materials, and components that are carefully selected and represent the best that the designer/manufacturer knows how to make at the time. A lot of the knowledge and experience acquired from these products does over time percolate to lower price points, and best all most of this stuff holds its value over time as well as a sieve holds water, and someone will benefit from yesterday's hot item at some ridiculously small % of the current price some years down the road - and the kicker is that what replaced it will not necessarily be better at most things.
Very small outfits will often also focus on statement type products because the volume of product they can produce will not generate sufficient profit margin on more reasonably priced gear or they simply lack the resources to manufacture anything in volume sufficient to generate the required revenue.
The Edge is well regarded amongst those who can afford the extreme high end, some of whom I respect. Statement products generally are very limited production, have much engineering and design resources lavished on them, use materials, and components that are carefully selected and represent the best that the designer/manufacturer knows how to make at the time. A lot of the knowledge and experience acquired from these products does over time percolate to lower price points, and best all most of this stuff holds its value over time as well as a sieve holds water, and someone will benefit from yesterday's hot item at some ridiculously small % of the current price some years down the road - and the kicker is that what replaced it will not necessarily be better at most things.
Very small outfits will often also focus on statement type products because the volume of product they can produce will not generate sufficient profit margin on more reasonably priced gear or they simply lack the resources to manufacture anything in volume sufficient to generate the required revenue.
sorry for confusion the Edge amp not the threshold
Right good call I think most of here would slobber all over ourselves at the prospect of picking up a threshold at a good price. But when I see an amp that lists all npn bipolar output, that tells me Iam seeing a quasicomplementary, class ab, push-pull design,
Could be single ended I suppose but at 800wattts into 8 ohms, 3200 watts into 2 ohms thats not very likely. I would tend to take the "show me the goods " attitude.
moe29 said:
Right good call I think most of here would slobber all over ourselves at the prospect of picking up a threshold at a good price. But when I see an amp that lists all npn bipolar output, that tells me Iam seeing a quasicomplementary, class ab, push-pull design,
Could be single ended I suppose but at 800wattts into 8 ohms, 3200 watts into 2 ohms thats not very likely. I would tend to take the "show me the goods " attitude.
sundries and good writing
GRollins
I've enjoyed reading your musing this morning and they brought to mind the fluidity of one of my favorite philosophers- Alan Watts-Are you familar with him? I've just introduced my 15 yr old to "the Wisdom of Insecurity" and thus he was on my mind.
thanks for brightening my day
rob
GRollins
I've enjoyed reading your musing this morning and they brought to mind the fluidity of one of my favorite philosophers- Alan Watts-Are you familar with him? I've just introduced my 15 yr old to "the Wisdom of Insecurity" and thus he was on my mind.
thanks for brightening my day
rob
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