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Old 1st March 2009, 04:24 AM   #1
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Default Cables in and out of the F1

Hi Folks,

I'm starting to think about what is going to go into my F1 (ICs) and what will be leaving it. But I'm not clear on how the unique characteristics of the current source amp will affect normal considerations.

Papa writes in the F1 manual, "A current source amplifier delivers a precise current to the voice coil of the loudspeaker driver, ignoring the series impedance elements in the circuit, including the wire, the inductance of the voice coil, the resistance of the
voice coil versus temperature all that stuff."

But I'm not entirely clear on the ramifications of this statement as far as wh

I'm wondering what I should prioritize in terms of my spending, ICs (which will need to be RCA) or speaker cable?

Apologies for opening both a speaker wire and IC can of worms in the same thread, but I'm trying to figure out where my money will be best spent...
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Old 1st March 2009, 09:33 AM   #2
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Default Re: Cables in and out of the F1

Quote:
Originally posted by roscoeiii

I'm wondering what I should prioritize in terms of my spending, ICs (which will need to be RCA) or speaker cable?
.

None of the above, qualifies for more than 10eur per channel.



Magura

EDIT: ok, if you don't get a reasonable deal on Neutrik XLR's, you may end up at 13eur.
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Old 6th March 2009, 08:09 PM   #3
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Default No Raging debate?

Wow, I thought the issue of cables and ICs was way more volatile than this. Lack of uproar due to the unique characteristics of current source amps, or folks on this forum so burnt out by endless cable/IC debates that they can't be bothered?
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Old 6th March 2009, 08:47 PM   #4
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This is the relaxed forum.

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Old 6th March 2009, 08:55 PM   #5
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Listening to the F1 I can understand why. That must also explain why there are so many Pass Zen amps.

And yet the audio bug always pipes up and asks "How can this be improved?" Much like those pesky thoughts that flit in during Zen meditation.
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Old 7th March 2009, 12:40 PM   #6
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by roscoeiii
Listening to the F1 I can understand why. That must also explain why there are so many Pass Zen amps.

And yet the audio bug always pipes up and asks "How can this be improved?" Much like those pesky thoughts that flit in during Zen meditation.

If you got some spare cash, spend it with sense.

A hefty power supply makes a difference, good heatsinks makes a difference, good active devices makes a difference, and good industrial quality capacitors are also worth something.


So in your shoes, my first step would be to get a nice pair of inductors for the power supply, to make a CLC filter.

If you still feel your wallet is too fat, spend some cash on thermal management.


Magura
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Old 7th March 2009, 12:57 PM   #7
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Well, a cheap improvement is to make up some solid powercables
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Old 8th March 2009, 09:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magura



If you got some spare cash, spend it with sense.

A hefty power supply makes a difference, good heatsinks makes a difference, good active devices makes a difference, and good industrial quality capacitors are also worth something.


So in your shoes, my first step would be to get a nice pair of inductors for the power supply, to make a CLC filter.

If you still feel your wallet is too fat, spend some cash on thermal management.


Magura

Can you elaborate on the specs of the chokes you are referring to?
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Old 8th March 2009, 09:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by G



Can you elaborate on the specs of the chokes you are referring to?

Sure, I used to make such


2.2mH around 0.3 ohm, air core.

Good quality pays off, as the bad inductors hums, and don't have a particular long lifespan.


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Old 9th March 2009, 06:42 AM   #10
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I think the idea is that the F1 can use any signal cables with consistant results. I think the F5 is the other end and can be picky about cable and lenghts. My favorite speaker wire is 18 to 22 gauge magnet wire and for the IC's I like 22 to 28 gauge solid silver with cotton as a dielectric. The main reason I like silver in the cotton silver oxide conducts just as well as shiny silver and the conductor is not sealed and will corrode. The magnet wire is enamel coated which sew cotton to hold the wires in a helix configuration There are 2" in diametre but are very light and sound great. I don't like the conductors to be twisted too close together. I might suggest using a cotton rope to wrap the wires around for interal structure. I don't like Teflon, PVC, PCP, RCMP... in my house at all and I don't like the sound of them either. natural materal do not change the sound, but the absense of chemicals and arificial crap allow me to relax and inturn listen better and thus it sounds better. I am presuming this is not what Nelson meant by relaxed though. I think Mr. Pass was meaning that whenever a cable question is raised it ends up causing heated debates where many people tell others they are insane and then the thread gets pulled due to the fued. So, in the spirit of previous threads on cables I will add some fuel.

I will promise you that all the material you use will alter your perception of the sound and that is as real as anything measured. The F1 might be the exception to the rule however and it may not matter at all what conductor is used. I would strongly advise that you do not use pudding though, kinda messy. The idea is that silver sounds more lively and detailed than copper. The reality is that is more likely to due with the finish quality of the wire finishing. Silver wire is gernerally polished after it is drawn which makes the surface consistant and allows the current to flow on the outside of the wire better which is where the higher frequency tavels. The lower end moves through the center of the wire. OCC copper sounds like silver because of the quality of the surface finish. The geometry of the cable has mavor influence over how it measures and sounds. Likely just as noticable a change will come from the colour alone. The colour of the wire DOES NOT ALTER THE SOUND, IT ALTER YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE SOUND SO PLEASE TRY IT WITH AN OPEN MIND BEFORE YOU CALL ME CRaZy ! Sorry for the caps but I am just making the point before 112 pages of name calling ensues. Also, the colour of your component can alter your perception as well. If you do not believe this, then tell me why red cars are seen to move 25% faster to the human brain even though our eyes tell the truth. I like violet coloured power cables, blue and natural wood compnents, IC's are white if a stereo pair and yellow if the pair is split to two cables. All internal wiring is white, green, blue. No red or black or navy, power colours cause western culture to be hyper analytical and tense leading to painfull listeng on bad recordings. Red has a different effect in Asia, like our red but without the sex, fighting, anger part. When I was younger, dumber, prouder, and more vane, I argued against this idea allong side my EE buddies. Ridicule is the second only to hunger as oppresion goes! Then I realized that I could spend $10 on tech-flex and test the power cord first. There is no burn in requried. If the colour suits you, you will hear it immediately and you will know and never argue against it again. It may sound better or worse and if you do not hear a difference it may be because you need to try a diffent colour that will affect you more. If all of the colours have been tested and still no change then you need a spliff, vacation, or new job because you are to tense and not receptive.

Another fun experiment with cables is to elevated them and dampen them.
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