I decided to order several different brands of 2 X 18V secondary transformers. I have used mostly Antek's in the past.
I will be testing these mostly by ear, but I will have the R-Core transformer tested by another group member for more numerical data.
The transformer on the left was custom spec'd for this stuff by Custom Magnetics in Chicago, but looks to have been outsourced to Shilchar in India. This in an R-Core transformer.
The left is a 077014201 Plitron, the Papa standard.
My test platform will be an F5, with a common Power supply and outputs as a control. I bi-amp, so I will try both in a bass, and mid-treble positions, hopefully testing all three trannies.
This by no means will be a fully objective test. I plan on sticking some test tracks from some well known CD's. Suggestions welcome.
To me, I would hope actually the most expensive (R-Core) will actually not provide significant sound improvement over the Antek. This may display to myself at least significant value in the product.
Of course there has been some debate on the matter, so I figure I will stir the pot more on this.
I may of course loan these out to gather other opinions here.
Mike T.
I will be testing these mostly by ear, but I will have the R-Core transformer tested by another group member for more numerical data.
The transformer on the left was custom spec'd for this stuff by Custom Magnetics in Chicago, but looks to have been outsourced to Shilchar in India. This in an R-Core transformer.
The left is a 077014201 Plitron, the Papa standard.
My test platform will be an F5, with a common Power supply and outputs as a control. I bi-amp, so I will try both in a bass, and mid-treble positions, hopefully testing all three trannies.
This by no means will be a fully objective test. I plan on sticking some test tracks from some well known CD's. Suggestions welcome.
To me, I would hope actually the most expensive (R-Core) will actually not provide significant sound improvement over the Antek. This may display to myself at least significant value in the product.
Of course there has been some debate on the matter, so I figure I will stir the pot more on this.
I may of course loan these out to gather other opinions here.
Mike T.
Attachments
You mean there won't be any giant robots fighting in this movie?
I've got movie trailer on the mind ... nevermind me
http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/transformersrevengeofthefallen/hd/
http://www.transformersmovie.com/
on-topic - I'd be interested to see if you hear any difference between the plitron and the antek.
I have both, but can't be bothered to swap out the Antek (in my F4). For me, the Antek ended up costing as much as the Plitron.
$42 ebay + $26 shipping and then got nailed for duty and tax at the door. Hopefully I won't use up all my Plitrons at any given time, otherwise I'll have to buy $250 worth of them next time
I've got movie trailer on the mind ... nevermind me
http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/transformersrevengeofthefallen/hd/
http://www.transformersmovie.com/
on-topic - I'd be interested to see if you hear any difference between the plitron and the antek.
I have both, but can't be bothered to swap out the Antek (in my F4). For me, the Antek ended up costing as much as the Plitron.
$42 ebay + $26 shipping and then got nailed for duty and tax at the door. Hopefully I won't use up all my Plitrons at any given time, otherwise I'll have to buy $250 worth of them next time
twitchie said:You mean there won't be any giant robots fighting in this movie?
I've got movie trailer on the mind ... nevermind me
http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/transformersrevengeofthefallen/hd/
http://www.transformersmovie.com/
on-topic - I'd be interested to see if you hear any difference between the plitron and the antek.
I have both, but can't be bothered to swap out the Antek (in my F4). For me, the Antek ended up costing as much as the Plitron.
$42 ebay + $26 shipping and then got nailed for duty and tax at the door. Hopefully I won't use up all my Plitrons at any given time, otherwise I'll have to buy $250 worth of them next time
There will be robots, a close inspection shows my avatar robot standing guard at the R-Core. The naming of the title was intentional with the release of the new movie. Made you think of Megan Fox, didn't I?
labjr said:
I would imagine it may be subtle, possibly measurable with some audio tools which I don't have. Of course, the results may be completely dependent on ones rest of the system.
In the tube world, working with someone who had quite a clip lead project and different interstage transformers and chokes of various metals, certainly could hear a difference when he swapped them out. There were types that I did prefer.
I can say this, the F5 might also be a common platform for some, and I expect if there is a notible difference, the difference would likely be seen by others with the same amp.
Tea-Bag said:
Usually reviewers have reference systems they have listened to for a while consisting of components which they know to be neutral sounding. This way when they try a new component they can tell if it makes their system sound better worse or the same as the component they are replacing
Designers like Nelson Pass do this at component level. I always read Nelson's posts about component selection and what sounds better or worse in a given circuit. ie using Fairchild MOSFETs in the F5. Why? Because his stuff consistently gets great reviews. Otherwise we wouldn't be here building his circuits. When he comments on parts selection, he doesn't go overboard with esoteric parts. When something really makes no difference he says so.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't some difference in the sound quality with different transformers. They probably have different core materials. They probably regulate a little differently. Use different wire, among other things.
Maybe they sound a little brighter or darker, have more or less bass slam, change the soundstage. They may make little or no change. But it would be nice to know. This way we all don't need to spend all the money for Plitron if it's not needed.
I don´t find such a Discusion to be usefull-it would be better to know more about Transformers in General,otherwise is good what sounds good to you-thats all.There is no Transformer making Bass...or more....
Excuse,but there are enough examples for excellent Transormers of every different Type-think of the Discussion Torroid vers. EI-core and than the knowledge of Lundahl.So why do we have to bring in our non-knowledge.I´m a Tech-loving Musician,and if you are writing down Experiences of what you are listening to-it will be more about you than about Technic or Music.Whats better-save money for the Transformer and spend more in a good Bottle of Wine?
For Proffesional Production,there are many more important Things like warranty-conditions and so on,or what sayd N.Pass about using the IRFP240:~~~simply because I have a good Stock of them......
Chears
Excuse,but there are enough examples for excellent Transormers of every different Type-think of the Discussion Torroid vers. EI-core and than the knowledge of Lundahl.So why do we have to bring in our non-knowledge.I´m a Tech-loving Musician,and if you are writing down Experiences of what you are listening to-it will be more about you than about Technic or Music.Whats better-save money for the Transformer and spend more in a good Bottle of Wine?
For Proffesional Production,there are many more important Things like warranty-conditions and so on,or what sayd N.Pass about using the IRFP240:~~~simply because I have a good Stock of them......
Chears
ever consider WHY NP has large stocks of certain components?
Untill now I build by myself and listen joyfully to 3 Passdesign...with Plitron Trannys...
perhaps you can read the entire post?
I simply think tat the Desision about what Transformer or other Device-Choice is to complex AND pragmatic for a global discussion about what´s best.For me its more:read!lern!Trust your Senses!
The good Thing about DIYaudio is ,that its not so much a Testing-Opinion Forum.
Untill now I build by myself and listen joyfully to 3 Passdesign...with Plitron Trannys...
perhaps you can read the entire post?
I simply think tat the Desision about what Transformer or other Device-Choice is to complex AND pragmatic for a global discussion about what´s best.For me its more:read!lern!Trust your Senses!
The good Thing about DIYaudio is ,that its not so much a Testing-Opinion Forum.
Baumi,
I think your opinion is relevant. However, these questions have come up before.
This to me is just going to be a subjective listening test, nothing more. It fits into the realm of DIYAudio in that I will put the system together to do the listening.
And the listening to me is what this is all about. Not about iron and copper, Fets, or wire fettishes. I build NP amps becuase he allows us too, and they are almost in my realm of transitor understanding...
I think your opinion is relevant. However, these questions have come up before.
This to me is just going to be a subjective listening test, nothing more. It fits into the realm of DIYAudio in that I will put the system together to do the listening.
And the listening to me is what this is all about. Not about iron and copper, Fets, or wire fettishes. I build NP amps becuase he allows us too, and they are almost in my realm of transitor understanding...
And the listening to me is what this is all about
...do you think,that listening is really something to write about...
ok,ok-what about about to show and write about Solutions to achieve best Performance with the Tranny one have in the junk?Every one knows-and even in this Tread is a
Post about-the Trannymoneyproblem.If I want a perfekt Product-I collekt Money for some Years...but that´s not what our hobby is about?
thank You for Patience
...do you think,that listening is really something to write about...
ok,ok-what about about to show and write about Solutions to achieve best Performance with the Tranny one have in the junk?Every one knows-and even in this Tread is a
Post about-the Trannymoneyproblem.If I want a perfekt Product-I collekt Money for some Years...but that´s not what our hobby is about?
thank You for Patience
Tea-Bag said:
Fwiw i recently did a similar test in an opamp phono preamp: toroid, R-core and EI of similar power rating (100VA). Overall the EI was best in my test and the toroid worst. If the R-core could match the EI bass it would probably win.
I am about to repeat the test in a tube power amp and preamp.
Eagerly anticipating your findings.
Here is something about:
In my Hybridampkit from Steinmusic(Germany)I build long ago There is something like an R-Core TR.OK not really,in German it´s called "Schnittbandkern"(someone can translate?)-the core is wound by very thin Sheets of Metall.Just for curiosity I changed this one against a Toroid from Plitron with the same basic Specif.It seemed more neutral,but I liked it less.I have several different "music-chaines" and use them day by day like i´m in the mood(excuse for my English).So sometimes I have a warm,muddy feeling and so I like the lightly coloured version with a little bit of hum(its really not too much)On the other Hand are the pass-designs with the sweet clearness-helping me to follow all the work and the "How"of the Music.So(I hope)the Toroids ,wich are in,help me to get the best(neutral)Performance.But they are sensible with Mains-DC(more on Day -Time,less in the Night).This I have not noticed with the "Schnittbandkern".
stefan
In my Hybridampkit from Steinmusic(Germany)I build long ago There is something like an R-Core TR.OK not really,in German it´s called "Schnittbandkern"(someone can translate?)-the core is wound by very thin Sheets of Metall.Just for curiosity I changed this one against a Toroid from Plitron with the same basic Specif.It seemed more neutral,but I liked it less.I have several different "music-chaines" and use them day by day like i´m in the mood(excuse for my English).So sometimes I have a warm,muddy feeling and so I like the lightly coloured version with a little bit of hum(its really not too much)On the other Hand are the pass-designs with the sweet clearness-helping me to follow all the work and the "How"of the Music.So(I hope)the Toroids ,wich are in,help me to get the best(neutral)Performance.But they are sensible with Mains-DC(more on Day -Time,less in the Night).This I have not noticed with the "Schnittbandkern".
stefan
Re: And the listening to me is what this is all about
Baumi,
I think your making too many assumptions and judgements on what others can post about.
Posting purely on technical assement I have problems with. Some things that may be technically good sound bad in my system. If you find this thread unproductive, please unsubscribe!
I beleive the R-Core is closer compared to EI core than Toroid from a benefits perpective. One thing I can say, the thing is heavy.
I am next getting into the metal work here, as last step ( I hope) in getting the chassis together. Too much snow shoveling over here has made me too sore for drilling, tapping and bolting a chassis together this weekend. Going skiing the next!
Cheers, Tea Bag!
Baumi said:
Baumi,
I think your making too many assumptions and judgements on what others can post about.
Posting purely on technical assement I have problems with. Some things that may be technically good sound bad in my system. If you find this thread unproductive, please unsubscribe!
analog_sa said:
I beleive the R-Core is closer compared to EI core than Toroid from a benefits perpective. One thing I can say, the thing is heavy.
I am next getting into the metal work here, as last step ( I hope) in getting the chassis together. Too much snow shoveling over here has made me too sore for drilling, tapping and bolting a chassis together this weekend. Going skiing the next!
Cheers, Tea Bag!
I use UI-core fore some years now, and like them
Unfortunately my trafo-builder has retired, so I dont know what to use next
I am told that a UI-core has some of virtues of a C-core
But I do have a couple of BIG UI-core waiting fore an amp module
I also have 4 small 21V/1.5A C-core, which I consider to use in paralelled pairs fore small tweeter amps, to drive a 100db ribbon
Below is a pic of a couple of heavy UI-core
Unfortunately my trafo-builder has retired, so I dont know what to use next
I am told that a UI-core has some of virtues of a C-core
But I do have a couple of BIG UI-core waiting fore an amp module
I also have 4 small 21V/1.5A C-core, which I consider to use in paralelled pairs fore small tweeter amps, to drive a 100db ribbon
Below is a pic of a couple of heavy UI-core
Attachments
A possible best of both worlds?
When it was posted that PLITRON were selling the 240v primary 18-18 secondaries toroids at a close out price I thought I would give them a try and use a step up transformer (EI) to up the voltage and, I hope, screen much of the AC garbage.
I found a SIGNAL transformer (2000 VA) on EBAY that filled the bill. It is a magnificent piece with electrostatic shielding. I figure all of these devices should work together balancing out their individual strengths and weaknesses.
I would have liked to use R cores but they are not readily available so this seemed an interesting way to go. My costs were basically one hundred dollars per transformer for the four transformers (AND the step-up/isolation transformer).
I will have nothing to compare it to so I am almost guaranteed to be pleased. (!!!)
Comments?
When it was posted that PLITRON were selling the 240v primary 18-18 secondaries toroids at a close out price I thought I would give them a try and use a step up transformer (EI) to up the voltage and, I hope, screen much of the AC garbage.
I found a SIGNAL transformer (2000 VA) on EBAY that filled the bill. It is a magnificent piece with electrostatic shielding. I figure all of these devices should work together balancing out their individual strengths and weaknesses.
I would have liked to use R cores but they are not readily available so this seemed an interesting way to go. My costs were basically one hundred dollars per transformer for the four transformers (AND the step-up/isolation transformer).
I will have nothing to compare it to so I am almost guaranteed to be pleased. (!!!)
Comments?
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