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Old 21st July 2008, 08:33 AM   #11
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Stefanoo, maybe you should progress in small steps? Read about RIAA and what it's doing? Then you'll understand that you never get a perfectly flat response with real world parts.

If you calculated the deviation from the perfect line you would find only 0.5dB and compare that value to the Ono-manual.

Oh and if you want to understand how the Ono works, try to understand the basic building blocks first (I mean the various basic circuits like common-gate, common-drain, common-source). Spice won't tell you how the Ono's working, infact you will often see that Spice isn't working properly at all - but how should you know if you don't understand the circuit?

The K389 is fed by a current source, so more or less independant of max IDss.

Have fun, Hannes

EDIT: Oh I'm sorry! Your axis is already in dB! See, Spice already playing tricks with you By the way 30dB gain is a bit too less, even for MM.
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Old 21st July 2008, 09:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by h_a

By the way 30dB gain is a bit too less, even for MM.


There is a -40db attenuation from the inverse riaa.



Stefano

Not sure what driving impedance the inverse riaa expects but it's unlikely to be 150ohm. You may need to modify the 1.91k resistor respectively.
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Old 21st July 2008, 09:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
There is a -40db attenuation from the inverse riaa.
Thank you! Yes I missed that completely. Have fun, Hannes
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Old 21st July 2008, 11:26 AM   #14
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analog thanks you anticipated my answer

anyways thanks HA for your advice.

Still my questions on BL or GR's types and high quality NPN/PNP 60V are still unaswered

Any tip with this regard?

thanks
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Old 21st July 2008, 11:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by h_a


If you calculated the deviation from the perfect line you would find only 0.5dB and compare that value to the Ono-manual.
unfortunately it looks like 3.5dB of deviation from the flat response more than 0.5dB.
Isn't it too much?

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Old 21st July 2008, 11:51 AM   #16
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Stefanoo, come on! You're a clever guy, you don't need simple yes/no replies!

Quote:
Still my questions on BL or GR's types
and this

Quote:
The K389 is fed by a current source, so more or less independant of max IDss.
gives a yes, you can use also GR or BL, even a V.

Quote:
high quality NPN/PNP 60V
In the same posting Nelson suggested also some equivalents, so just get these?

Quote:
unfortunately it looks like 3.5dB of deviation from the flat response
fits nicely to

Quote:
Spice already playing tricks with you
and

Quote:
Spice won't tell you how the Ono's working, infact you will often see that Spice isn't working properly at all - but how should you know if you don't understand the circuit?
Everything clear now?

Have fun! Hannes
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Old 21st July 2008, 02:06 PM   #17
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....mas o menos està todo clarito

but i remember nelson giving the MPSA as replcaments for the "less important" transistors and suggest to get high quality 60V parts for the rest.
I might check the post one more time to confirm what i have just said above.

Anyways, for the deviation from the ideal/flat response, i still think the RIAA regulation, in my case, is a little bit odd due to the 3.5dB of deviation.

Anybody wants to say something about this?

t h a n k s in advance.
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Old 21st July 2008, 02:29 PM   #18
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Hi Stefanoo,

of course 3.5dB is far too much and nobody would ever sell that. Just as I told you to look up the value in the Ono manual, it says there +- 0.1dB from 20-20kHz. So your spice-sim is goofy.

All the best, Hannes
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Old 21st July 2008, 05:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stefanoo
Anyways, for the deviation from the ideal/flat response, i still think the RIAA regulation, in my case, is a little bit odd due to the 3.5dB of deviation.


Did you test my suggestion about the 150ohm resistor and its effect on the 1k91?
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Old 21st July 2008, 07:04 PM   #20
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These are REAL frequency response measurement of the Ono I built for a friend of mine.
They have been taken with my Agilent analyzer, and are the f.r. of all the stages, from MC input to output. The other channel is exactly the same!
One is the real RIAA (plus gain) frequency response, the other with David Manley's inverse-RIAA network.
As you can see the line is quite flat, ant the two -2.5dB points are located to 5Hz and 100KHz.
Of course, so high frequency behaviour is to be evaluated with RIAA > Inverse-RIAA combination...
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