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Old 12th February 2003, 04:12 PM   #1
Serow is offline Serow  Canada
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Default PS question - CLC vs C filtering

I have four large electrolytic caps that I want to use for a stereo non-monobloc Mini-Aleph. Do you think it would be better to have an individual PS per channel with one cap per rail, or have a single PS for both channels using a CLC arrangement?

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 12th February 2003, 04:28 PM   #2
MikeW is offline MikeW  United States
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I would go with the one C-R-C. It will have less ripple.
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Old 12th February 2003, 09:36 PM   #3
Mambo is offline Mambo  Italy
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I think that using a good inductor with low resistence (ie 2mH x .5Ohm Max) You will alwas get better results then a CRC filter, when comparing the two to get the same voltage after the filter.

Try a simulation with

PSU Designer II
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Old 13th February 2003, 02:56 PM   #4
protos is offline protos  Greece
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I have never actually seen any discussion on the audible differences ( I don't mean hum) between CRC ,CLC etc.Are there any or is it just a matter of getting the PS to measure well?I guess if CLC was the best then everybody would be using it but in practice you don't see much of it in hi-end equipment or even in books on audio eg.Slone.I have only heard Musical Fidelity making a big deal of it with their "choke-regulated power supplies".
Since we are splitting hairs about directivity in resistors I don't understand why this doesn't raise much interest.??
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Old 14th February 2003, 11:35 AM   #5
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Hi Protos,

Audiolabor used them too in their "Diamant" amps. (Seperate PS)
I´ve seen the pics in german "stereplay" and I think they used toroid core chokes. Inductance unknown. 2 caps before and 3 (probably same capacity) after the choke.
Besides that they are seldom employed.
I tend to think that it´s mostly a because of cost, space or weight and sometimes of reduced damping factor/higher internal resistance which could worsen bass control as most prestige amps are meant for full range use.

Franz
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Old 14th February 2003, 02:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by protos
I guess if CLC was the best then everybody would be using it but in practice you don't see much of it in hi-end equipment

because inductors are large and expensive, versus small and cheap resistors. Since the audible difference is very small, companies will use the small and cheap alternative I guess...
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Old 14th February 2003, 02:57 PM   #7
uli is offline uli  Austria
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Quote:
Originally posted by protos
I guess if CLC was the best then everybody would be using it but in practice you don't see much of it in hi-end equipment or even in books on audio
Quote:
Originally posted by Hanzwillem

because inductors are large and expensive, versus small and cheap resistors. Since the audible difference is very small, companies will use the small and cheap alternative I guess...
Take a look into Mark Levinsons big Cello Audio Monos.

The choke is about the size of the XFMR.

Reason is (often forgotten) that you need an air gap in the
core because of heavy DC-current. this gap is necessary to
avoid saturation of the core. This leads to much bigger cores
to achieve a certain inductivity.

Many people use Xover chokes which is completely nonsense
since they work in this case just as a resistor with a saturated core!

Of course there is a big difference in performance!

Uli



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Old 14th February 2003, 03:01 PM   #8
akira is offline akira  France
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I m wondering id the Torobar from Intertechnik have a big enough air gap in the core. I d like to use then in 8A ... The saturation is at 11A.

Any idea ...
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Old 14th February 2003, 03:17 PM   #9
uli is offline uli  Austria
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Default should work

should work, but be sure that it´s meant DC Ampères!
Normally this intertechnik stuff is for Xovers only and has
no gap at all! This 11A saturation is AC I fear!
Best way is to make your own toroid.
Take off the wire and cut a gap into the core with a sharp saw,
then rewind the wire. You will measure a very much lowered
inductivity!

PS: Hammonds DC-Chokes with eg 5 A DC and 10mH are as
big as a mains-transformer.
www.hammondmfg.com/195.htm
A saturated core leads to heat and loss of inductivity.
In this case a 0.47R 10W resistor is better, cheaper does the same job!

Uli
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Old 14th February 2003, 10:09 PM   #10
Serow is offline Serow  Canada
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I did some simulations using PSUD II. A simple CRC seemed to be effective in reducing the ripple. The impedence of the capacitors seemed to significantly influence the amount of ripple.

Anyone have an idea of what level of ripple is acceptable, as a general rule?
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