I think that using a good inductor with low resistence (ie 2mH x .5Ohm Max) You will alwas get better results then a CRC filter, when comparing the two to get the same voltage after the filter.
Try a simulation with
PSU Designer II
Try a simulation with
PSU Designer II
I have never actually seen any discussion on the audible differences ( I don't mean hum) between CRC ,CLC etc.Are there any or is it just a matter of getting the PS to measure well?I guess if CLC was the best then everybody would be using it but in practice you don't see much of it in hi-end equipment or even in books on audio eg.Slone.I have only heard Musical Fidelity making a big deal of it with their "choke-regulated power supplies".
Since we are splitting hairs about directivity in resistors I don't understand why this doesn't raise much interest.??
Since we are splitting hairs about directivity in resistors I don't understand why this doesn't raise much interest.??
Hi Protos,
Audiolabor used them too in their "Diamant" amps. (Seperate PS)
I´ve seen the pics in german "stereplay" and I think they used toroid core chokes. Inductance unknown. 2 caps before and 3 (probably same capacity) after the choke.
Besides that they are seldom employed.
I tend to think that it´s mostly a because of cost, space or weight and sometimes of reduced damping factor/higher internal resistance which could worsen bass control as most prestige amps are meant for full range use.
Franz
Audiolabor used them too in their "Diamant" amps. (Seperate PS)
I´ve seen the pics in german "stereplay" and I think they used toroid core chokes. Inductance unknown. 2 caps before and 3 (probably same capacity) after the choke.
Besides that they are seldom employed.
I tend to think that it´s mostly a because of cost, space or weight and sometimes of reduced damping factor/higher internal resistance which could worsen bass control as most prestige amps are meant for full range use.
Franz
protos said:
Hanzwillem said:
Take a look into Mark Levinsons big Cello Audio Monos.
The choke is about the size of the XFMR.
Reason is (often forgotten) that you need an air gap in the
core because of heavy DC-current. this gap is necessary to
avoid saturation of the core. This leads to much bigger cores
to achieve a certain inductivity.
Many people use Xover chokes which is completely nonsense
since they work in this case just as a resistor with a saturated core!
Of course there is a big difference in performance!
Uli
should work
should work, but be sure that it´s meant DC Ampères!
Normally this intertechnik stuff is for Xovers only and has
no gap at all! This 11A saturation is AC I fear!
Best way is to make your own toroid.
Take off the wire and cut a gap into the core with a sharp saw,
then rewind the wire. You will measure a very much lowered
inductivity!
PS: Hammonds DC-Chokes with eg 5 A DC and 10mH are as
big as a mains-transformer.
www.hammondmfg.com/195.htm
A saturated core leads to heat and loss of inductivity.
In this case a 0.47R 10W resistor is better, cheaper does the same job!
Uli
should work, but be sure that it´s meant DC Ampères!
Normally this intertechnik stuff is for Xovers only and has
no gap at all! This 11A saturation is AC I fear!
Best way is to make your own toroid.
Take off the wire and cut a gap into the core with a sharp saw,
then rewind the wire. You will measure a very much lowered
inductivity!
PS: Hammonds DC-Chokes with eg 5 A DC and 10mH are as
big as a mains-transformer.
www.hammondmfg.com/195.htm
A saturated core leads to heat and loss of inductivity.
In this case a 0.47R 10W resistor is better, cheaper does the same job!
Uli
I'd go with the CLC as the ultimate (nearly all tube equipment uses CLC filtering, I guess because of it's poorer power suply noise rejection), but i'd wouldn't ignore the CRC either, CRC can do wonders if you don't mind the little drop in voltage. But as for if a CRC or CLC should be used instead of theseperate C filter for each channel, what do you want, better channel seperation or lower noise on your DC? I'd go with less noise on the DC personally. Or you could always go with a capacitance multiplyer circuit, I find they can work wonders when you get them right.
Re: should work
It should be 10.7 amp according to this link. How can I make shure that its DC and not AC? I don't think Intertechnik will have any more info on it.
How much ampere does an normal Aleph5 (dual mono powersupply) require (I understood something around 2A? Which can be doubled at peaks). Is that correct?
If the Torobars is no good enough I may still be able to cancel the order and replace it with four tritecs like these (however the DCR is much higher and I actually have not enough space left for them )
Oops, I just ordered four 2.2 mH torobars for the CLC filter in my Aleph5.uli said:
It should be 10.7 amp according to this link. How can I make shure that its DC and not AC? I don't think Intertechnik will have any more info on it.
How much ampere does an normal Aleph5 (dual mono powersupply) require (I understood something around 2A? Which can be doubled at peaks). Is that correct?
If the Torobars is no good enough I may still be able to cancel the order and replace it with four tritecs like these (however the DCR is much higher and I actually have not enough space left for them
)chokes
Hi, Duck,
I would go with resistors as the whole intertechnik stuff
is for Xovers only.
I built my Aleph 2s with hammond chokes
www.hammondmfg.com/195.htm
bought at www.partsconnexion.com
but they are quite monstreous.
Uli
Hi, Duck,
I would go with resistors as the whole intertechnik stuff
is for Xovers only.
I built my Aleph 2s with hammond chokes
www.hammondmfg.com/195.htm
bought at www.partsconnexion.com
but they are quite monstreous.
Uli
misuse
IMHO there´s a reason for making DC cores with an airgap.
To spend 16 Euros for a "resistor" (a choke with a saturated core
is nothing else!) is ridiculous!
Of course they "work well" = they don´t burn.
A 10W 0.47R resistor does the same job for 2 Euros!
PS: according to "Intertechnik" this coil handles 600W/8R = 8.7A
RMS BUT AC-current!
Normally you saturate a core without gap with fractions of that
current!
Theres a reason why no commercial manufacturer uses such
coils. ML from Cello Audio uses chokes which are of XFMR size
because of that gap which causes a big loss of inductance.
Uli
IMHO there´s a reason for making DC cores with an airgap.
To spend 16 Euros for a "resistor" (a choke with a saturated core
is nothing else!) is ridiculous!
Of course they "work well" = they don´t burn.
A 10W 0.47R resistor does the same job for 2 Euros!
PS: according to "Intertechnik" this coil handles 600W/8R = 8.7A
RMS BUT AC-current!
Normally you saturate a core without gap with fractions of that
current!
Theres a reason why no commercial manufacturer uses such
coils. ML from Cello Audio uses chokes which are of XFMR size
because of that gap which causes a big loss of inductance.
Uli
Aleph draws much more current from the PS than a Zen, but I haven't made an Aleph yet, so I can't compare. For last year I use my Zen with 2A bias to decrease the sink temperature a bit and then I don't think the air core chokes will get much saturated. They are 0.47 Ohm if I remember correctly.
I am planning on building an aleph-X, but for that PS I think I'll use CRC, I hear rather good results, so why not copy the good things others found out.
I am planning on building an aleph-X, but for that PS I think I'll use CRC, I hear rather good results, so why not copy the good things others found out.
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