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Old 9th February 2003, 06:20 PM   #1
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Default Zen V4

Im thinking about buildig the Zen amp,
but before I begin I wants to know how much it will cost in components, because Im on a small budget, I was also thinking about if there is any of the components that are hard to get?
How large the trafos should be?
If there is any problems by building this design I should be aware of?
Anybody who has some good modifications for Nelson Passī design ?
Or a very good pcb design you would share with me?
Well that was a lot of questions I hope you can help me
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Old 9th February 2003, 08:21 PM   #2
kirc is offline kirc  Slovenia
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Hi !

Me and my friend Stabist were build ZEN V4 with my own PCB design. PCB is availiable here and also some pictures and informations: ZEN V4 PCB by LEON

How much ZEN v4 was cost will tell you Stabist when he come to board.

best regards,
LEON
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Old 9th February 2003, 08:27 PM   #3
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Thanks, nice design!

anybody else who has some ideas??
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Old 9th February 2003, 08:32 PM   #4
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I built Zen V4. The most expesive part is heatsinks. I bought new and really fine heatsinks, was about 120,- Euro. Second expensive part is transformer, I used standart parts from Reichelt, about 33,- each, i used 2* 330VA. I belive 200VA would be OK also. The PCB i used the official twosided lauyout and etched at home - asked for etching chemicals at a Univerity lab - zero cost, and 2 Euro for PCB masterial. The other parts I used mostly standart, nothing exotic, from Reichelt. Not really expensive, some * ten Euros. Hard to find in germany is CL60 for inrush current limiting thermistor, but if you do a search there are people who used other thermistors. Other hard to find part is the ZVP33?? transistor, some say you could also use BS250, or ask for help in the board.

I donīt know exactly, but it wasnīt much more than maybe 300Euro for one Twochannel ZEN V4, maybe it was less.
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Old 9th February 2003, 08:42 PM   #5
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How much capitance did you youse??
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Old 9th February 2003, 08:51 PM   #6
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http://www.reichelt.de/

I used "ax 10000/63" from them.

each channel 3 in parallel of them. If you are really short on money for the project, use old heatsinks, maybe smaller with old computer fan, smaller transformers, and i think 1*10000uF each channel is absolutely enough. Even 4700 will do, because the regulator will take away the ripple.
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Old 9th February 2003, 09:00 PM   #7
Stabist is offline Stabist  Slovenia
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Hmm - after couple of weeky of living with Zen v4

Mine uses 370VA toroid - and is on full (cca2A) bias - and? The toroid gets very loud - I think it should be at least 500VA for such configuration ...
Also - that noise is exactely the hum I can hear in speakers - I know I know - untill now I should allready do some stuff to avoid that - but there hasn't been enough time to tweak it up a bit ...
I think Kirc and I will play a little with it in next few days ...

The total costs? - toroid (that's the reason for using so litle reserves in VA ratings) and heatsinks were gratis - so the big part of expences was avoided ...
The complete chassis costed me 60Eur.
And PCB boards themselves, all parts, switch, RCAs, speaker terminals, ... and PSU capacitors were around 80Eur

So - the total cost for finished ad can be seen on photos (kirc allready sent you the link) were 140Eur ...
Transistors are irfp250N by IR; capacitors are Jamicon and Wima MKS 4; resistors are metalfilm ones (xy brand) and 3W ones are 5W Vitroohm 10% ones ...
That's it - nothing exotical ...
The only thing - PSU is made with 3 Jamicons (10.000uF/50V each) ... I heard from a gay that used Jamicons in PSU - that they are gone after max 2 years of constant use - so - if that's true - it is worth to spend a bit more for a bit better ones ...
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Old 9th February 2003, 09:09 PM   #8
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I did some test with my toroid transformers because of the hum/noise whatever. I donīt belive they are louder because they have to deliver more current. If i let them deliver only some hundred mA they make mechanical noise after some hours, and if they deliver some A they do also, not louder. There is a lot of discussion and nonsense on german hifiboards with highend toroids, mumetal shielded, very expensive etc - and also noise problems.

I think if the toroid is sold as good for 200VA it should be able to deliver abouit half of this without any problems.

You canīt avoid the mechanical noise, but you can mechanical decoupling the toroid. Build a pot from 4mm steel, 3-5 times the toroids volume. fill with sand or soft foam or both. Put the toroid in the middle. This helps. A 1000 VA toroid probably not - and if you want to buy a very big toroid - why noit build a very big amp with it ? more fun!

btw. of corse my ZEN V4 has full bias.
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Old 9th February 2003, 09:14 PM   #9
Stabist is offline Stabist  Slovenia
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Yeah, OK, you're right - if it makes noise allready "in idle" - then even 1000VA rating wouldn't help him! - but in my case - if no load on secondary - no hum - now in Zen configuration - very very loud ... And not getting that after some time - but right from the beginning ...

So??

I still thinks - with 500VA one I wouldn't have that problems!
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Old 9th February 2003, 09:17 PM   #10
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Is this hum mechanical (ear on the toroid), electrical (ear on the speaker, oscilloscope, or both? if hum in the speaker, how many dB/1W speakers?
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