Aleph 30 substitute

gigi.vassallo · 15th April 2007, 11:22 PM

Hello folks,
I listen to music with my Aleph 30 amp in a mid-size (4x4,50 m.)room. My speakers' sensibility is 87 db but in my room the "30" works enough well.
Now I could change listening-room to a 8x4,50 m. one, and my "30" is not enough powerful for a good listening level. (I heard an Aleph 60 but it's not so magical as the "30"...)
Which between old Threshold/Pass' products has same musical characteristics but more powerful?
Could the N.P.'s vintageamps expertises make a subjective quality classify? 400A, Cas1-2, 4000...
And then, I use a tube Arc preamp which works well with the"30" but I would complete a couple with a NP vintage preamp. Which would be a best buy? NS10, SL10...?...
I hope someone of you would spent a bit of his time to clear my doubts.
Thanks a lot,
Luigi

GRollins · 15th April 2007, 11:52 PM

There are various ways to approach this. My first suggestion would be to build a 60W or 100W Aleph...but increase the bias. This will require serious heatsinking. The stock Alephs already generate a lot of heat, but increasing the bias will generate even more.
Yes, the power supply will need to be robust.
The 30W Aleph had the highest relative bias of all the Alephs. Given that increasing the bias current makes an amp sound better, this could very well be why you prefer that amplifier.
I have done a great deal of fiddling with the bias on Aleph 2s (the 100W monoblock version) and can say that increasing the bias on Aleph 2s results in a warmer, more tube-like sound. I generally run mine about 10% above stock bias. The heat dissipation isn't a problem for me because mine are water cooled. I can dissipate most any amount of heat that the output devices can generate and stay within their SOA. Others are more likely to use air cooled amps.
Start with desired power, then work backwards, choosing the circuit that will generate that general amount of wattage, then looking at power supply design and heat dissipation.

Grey

Nelson Pass · 16th April 2007, 12:36 AM

In any case I don't see a reason to rush out and replace
your ARC preamp.

RoboMan · 16th April 2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GRollins

...The heat dissipation isn't a problem for me because mine are water cooled. ...

Hi Grey,

Care to provide full details of your water cooling system (with Photos)? Or you have already done so? (I think a lot of people will be interested as it is expensive and difficult to get suitable heat sinks, especially for high power ones.)

MEGA-amp · 16th April 2007, 06:42 AM

Search?
Grey's watercooled Aleph thread

No pics around, although myself and I'm sure a few others wouldn't mind seeing some pics of Grey's creation. Heck, i'm sure I could find an "old" digicam and send it to him. He's been holding out for toooo long.

RoboMan · 16th April 2007, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MEGA-amp

No pics around, although myself and I'm sure a few others wouldn't mind seeing some pics of Grey's creation. Heck, i'm sure I could find an "old" digicam and send it to him. He's been holding out for toooo long.

Good idea! Thanks for the link!

Buhl · 16th April 2007, 06:55 PM

I dont se the reason for you to change amp - I would recommend you to try and listen to your system in the large room, but with your speakers positioned to play in the short direction of the room - so you will have about 3 meters between the speakers and your ears (assuming you have the speakers a meter or so from the wall and about the same with your head).
This have prooved great results in my room, instead of playing in the "long" direction, which is what you se most of the time. This way difractions from the side walls hits your ear much, much later.
And, your given that your speakers are about the same distance as in the old room, mabye the A30 is enough ?
BTW - sound will also change with more output transistors, so it is proberbly not all about bias and cooling....

Kind regards
Hans

gigi.vassallo · 17th April 2007, 12:57 AM

Thanks for suggestions guys, but...

Quote:

Originally posted by GRollins
There are various ways to approach this. My first suggestion would be to build a 60W or 100W Aleph...
Grey

...I think wouldn't be able to build a poweramp...

Quote:

Originally posted by Nelson Pass
In any case I don't see a reason to rush out and replace
your ARC preamp.

I want not replace my Arc preamp, but I would like own a matched pair of NP's products... and it seems SL10 and NS10 are the most approachable price on used equipments... which is better between them?

Quote:

Originally posted by Buhl
I dont se the reason for you to change amp - I would recommend you to try and listen to your system in the large room, but with your speakers positioned to play.....
Kind regards
Hans

Oh dear Hans, I don' know if you are married... but that you propose it means a new world war with my wife

Anyway I would you suggest me a more powerful NP amp to search between Cas, 400, 4000 or other
Cheers,
Luigi

mpmarino · 17th April 2007, 03:42 AM

Quote:

...I think wouldn't be able to build a poweramp...

I think you're wrong

...the problem - once you start you can't stop.

like heroine

15th April 2007, 11:22 PM	#1
gigi.vassallo diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2007	Aleph 30 substitute Hello folks, I listen to music with my Aleph 30 amp in a mid-size (4x4,50 m.)room. My speakers' sensibility is 87 db but in my room the "30" works enough well. Now I could change listening-room to a 8x4,50 m. one, and my "30" is not enough powerful for a good listening level. (I heard an Aleph 60 but it's not so magical as the "30"...) Which between old Threshold/Pass' products has same musical characteristics but more powerful? Could the N.P.'s vintageamps expertises make a subjective quality classify? 400A, Cas1-2, 4000... And then, I use a tube Arc preamp which works well with the"30" but I would complete a couple with a NP vintage preamp. Which would be a best buy? NS10, SL10...?... I hope someone of you would spent a bit of his time to clear my doubts. Thanks a lot, Luigi

16th April 2007, 06:55 PM	#7
Buhl diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Aalborg, Denmark	I dont se the reason for you to change amp - I would recommend you to try and listen to your system in the large room, but with your speakers positioned to play in the short direction of the room - so you will have about 3 meters between the speakers and your ears (assuming you have the speakers a meter or so from the wall and about the same with your head). This have prooved great results in my room, instead of playing in the "long" direction, which is what you se most of the time. This way difractions from the side walls hits your ear much, much later. And, your given that your speakers are about the same distance as in the old room, mabye the A30 is enough ? BTW - sound will also change with more output transistors, so it is proberbly not all about bias and cooling.... Kind regards Hans __________________ "Calculations? We don't need no stinkin calculations! We just make them really big!" Quote: Nelson Pass

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15th April 2007, 11:52 PM	#2
GRollins diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, SC	There are various ways to approach this. My first suggestion would be to build a 60W or 100W Aleph...but increase the bias. This will require serious heatsinking. The stock Alephs already generate a lot of heat, but increasing the bias will generate even more. Yes, the power supply will need to be robust. The 30W Aleph had the highest relative bias of all the Alephs. Given that increasing the bias current makes an amp sound better, this could very well be why you prefer that amplifier. I have done a great deal of fiddling with the bias on Aleph 2s (the 100W monoblock version) and can say that increasing the bias on Aleph 2s results in a warmer, more tube-like sound. I generally run mine about 10% above stock bias. The heat dissipation isn't a problem for me because mine are water cooled. I can dissipate most any amount of heat that the output devices can generate and stay within their SOA. Others are more likely to use air cooled amps. Start with desired power, then work backwards, choosing the circuit that will generate that general amount of wattage, then looking at power supply design and heat dissipation. Grey

16th April 2007, 12:36 AM	#3
Nelson Pass The one and only Join Date: Mar 2001	In any case I don't see a reason to rush out and replace your ARC preamp.

16th April 2007, 06:42 AM	#5
MEGA-amp diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Newington, CT	Search? Grey's watercooled Aleph thread No pics around, although myself and I'm sure a few others wouldn't mind seeing some pics of Grey's creation. Heck, i'm sure I could find an "old" digicam and send it to him. He's been holding out for toooo long.

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