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Old 8th January 2007, 05:22 PM   #1
EdT is offline EdT  Canada
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Default More Hocus Pocus !

I am continually amazed with the hocus pocus that has inhibited the audio equipment industry, having not indugled myself more in depth to the developments of this sector, the more I look into it the more it is an alchemy type of market. I know the high-end audio products is more art, passion and technology, but some of this is bordering on the absurd.

Take for example solder wires: http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...&content_id=19

I am sure this is a rebadge from large solder manufacturers such as Multicore/Loctite, Alpha or even Kester or AIM. I can't believe people actually think their solder will perform better or give better performance. With the increase use of RoHS(lead-free) solder in Europe it is actually in my opinon a less performing product which any mission critical application would not even consider.

Also, the cabling in the audio sector is another one of those black smithing products and the exhuberant price that they are charging is totally absurd !

What do you gents/ladies really think of all this ?
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Old 8th January 2007, 05:52 PM   #2
radtech is offline radtech  United States
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I think probably at least 75% of what you read when it comes to high end DIY audio is alchemy and snake oil. Trick is knowing enough to sort the grain from the chaff.
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Old 8th January 2007, 06:06 PM   #3
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What do I think?
I think that in your zeal to lash out at Cardas, you chose to ignore the "Have you searched?" question. Trust me, the entire topic has been done to death, ad nauseum.

Grey
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Old 8th January 2007, 06:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: More Hocus Pocus !

Quote:
Originally posted by EdT
I am continually amazed with the hocus pocus that has inhibited the audio equipment industry, having not indugled myself more in depth to the developments of this sector, the more I look into it the more it is an alchemy type of market. I know the high-end audio products is more art, passion and technology, but some of this is bordering on the absurd.

Take for example solder wires: http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...&content_id=19

I am sure this is a rebadge from large solder manufacturers such as Multicore/Loctite, Alpha or even Kester or AIM. I can't believe people actually think their solder will perform better or give better performance. With the increase use of RoHS(lead-free) solder in Europe it is actually in my opinon a less performing product which any mission critical application would not even consider.

Also, the cabling in the audio sector is another one of those black smithing products and the exhuberant price that they are charging is totally absurd !

What do you gents/ladies really think of all this ?

See Grey's post above. Most of us have shaken our collective heads decennia ago, learned to avoid these pitfalls and moved on. As younger parts of the population enter the market, these snake oil salesman continue to prosper.

Do your own thinking....

Jan Didden
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Old 8th January 2007, 10:14 PM   #5
EdT is offline EdT  Canada
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Default Re: Re: More Hocus Pocus !

Quote:
Originally posted by janneman



See Grey's post above. Most of us have shaken our collective heads decennia ago, learned to avoid these pitfalls and moved on. As younger parts of the population enter the market, these snake oil salesman continue to prosper.

Do your own thinking....

Jan Didden

Good that most DIYers are no buying into the snake oil salesman.

I did a search on the solder and found alot of misinformation, but most are pretty close to the point. Typically now there are four types of solder being used widely on the market:

1. 63/37 SnPb No Clean
2. 63/37 SnPb Water Soluble
3. SAC305 No Clean (Lead-free)
4. SAC305 Water Soluble

60/40 is rare and is still required for mil-spec contracts for the only reason most have not changed the standards in thier drawings. 60/40 has a plastic stage which is really not ideal, 63/37 eutetic solder with RMA(Rosin Mildly Active) flux is much better.

I still prefer 67/37 no clean with rosin(RMA) flux for the best possible wetting and appearance.

I do not trust lead free solders, there is still not enough data to support performance over 20 years +, this is why military and aerospace industries will not go there, but I have done jobs for AirBus using lead-free due to the European ban on lead products, so who wants to risk everything flying AirBus ?
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Old 8th January 2007, 10:37 PM   #6
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Quote:
I think probably at least 75% of what you read when it comes to ...snip!.. audio is alchemy and snake oil. Trick is knowing enough to sort the grain from the chaff.
Converted to the general case.
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Old 9th January 2007, 12:22 AM   #7
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I'll make this algorithm as simple as I can:

1) Hear or read of product/process/etc. claimed to produce benefit
2) Listen to said product/process/etc.

If it makes no difference in the sound, go about your business. Note that the proper response if asked by another is not,"It's absolute BS! I can't believe...yadda, yadda, yadda..." it's, "I tried it and did not hear a difference." Note that the second statement is more intellectually honest, no matter how good it may feel to vent self-righteous wrath like a fire-and-brimstone country preacher out to save his flock from the temptations of Satan and his minions.

If it does make a difference, and assuming it's for the better, then proceed to:

3) Given the asking price of X dollars, do I feel that this is a worthwhile investment?

No one but you can answer that one, and the answer may change at different times during your life, depending on whether the rent is due and the refrigerator is empty, or if you just sold your dot-com startup for a gazillion dollars.

If the change was for the worse, then go on about your business. If asked, respond,"It produced this effect in my system. I didn't care for it."

For some reason, this simple flow chart seems difficult for some people to comprehend. Persons of a certain sort are particularly prone to mixing the "does it do anything?" and "how much does it cost?" questions together in their minds and become greatly agitated--the higher the price, the more they tend to jump to the conclusion that there is no benefit. The only known treatment is sedation until the fit passes. Note that continuted medical supervision is indicated, as relapses are almost certain to occur.
Oh...and if for whatever reason you decided not to try it, the only intellectually honest response if asked is,"I have not tried it."
All else is emotion, no matter how much the speaker pretends otherwise.
There is an old quote something to the effect of, "You have mistaken the strength of your emotion for the force of your logic." Don't fall into that trap.

Grey

EDIT: 60/40 is not rare. It is the only type of solder available in these parts.
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Old 9th January 2007, 01:03 AM   #8
EdT is offline EdT  Canada
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EDIT: 60/40 is not rare. It is the only type of solder available in these parts.

Wow, I haven't seen 60/40 for at least 7 years now, I would have to place a special order just to get it. 60/40 is an older formulation than 63/37 and you will notice the benefits of not having a plastic stage. Tin and lead by themselves have a higher melting temperature than 183Deg C, but once they are mixed the melting temperature lowers itself, just one of those fluke of chemistry I guess.
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Old 9th January 2007, 01:27 AM   #9
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I just bought solder last week, so this is current information. Here in central South Carolina, there is nothing but 60/40 to be had. Period. They won't even special order anything else. And that's in the capital and largest city of the state, mind you. Indeed, I was all but called a communist by a rather testy fellow at one parts house when I asked if they had anything else. Welcome to the redneck South, where anything that isn't "like my gran'pappy did it" is greeted with utmost squinty-eyed suspicion and hostility.
Those who haven't lived here should try it before commenting that it can't be so. I have long said that living in this corner of the country is like living in a third world nation. They're backwards and quite literally proud of it. The "America, love it or leave it" syndrome--xenophobic, insular, and spoiling for a fight. Sad...very sad.
Not to mention difficult for someone who does not share the mindset.
Or happens to want something other than 60/40 solder.

Grey
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Old 9th January 2007, 06:36 PM   #10
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Default Hmmmm.

Quite frankly, Grey, I'm surprised that someone who has recently posted on the evils of an emotionally-driven narrowness of mind would turn right around and say "...Welcome to the redneck South, where anything that isn't 'like my gran'pappy did it' is greeted with utmost squinty-eyed suspicion and hostility. Those who haven't lived here should try it before commenting that it can't be so. I have long said that living in this corner of the country is like living in a third world nation. They're backwards and quite literally proud of it. The 'America, love it or leave it' syndrome--xenophobic, insular, and spoiling for a fight. Sad...very sad."

Sounds xenophobic, insular and spoiling for a fight. Sad, very sad, y'all.
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