Frank, I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole. I just trawled through their website, and the amount of data they provide is negligible. OTTOMH their lifetime figures didnt look crash hot, and the lack of datasheets scares me.
I've only ever designed SMPS for >= 10 year operating life. which is why I only use the leading brands. every experience I've ever had (and there have been many) with other brands has been poor. Usually its like this:
Client - "we've been using these XXX caps, and are having field failures"
me - detailed analysis, "they are crap. dont use them"
the cheaper caps arent that much cheaper than the good ones, and they are never as good. just dont.
Johno, try reading your own first sentence. "manufacturing to a price point" = downgrade quality until price point hit. this is a problem, as lots of customers are interested in price alone, not quality & reliability (total cost of ownership). its not the fault of the factory, they are being asked to make lousy parts.
A while back I did a forensic review of a SMPS (used in mass-manufactured audio gear as it happens) & I got a bunch of Samxon GK caps sent directly to me from Samxon. and these were the ones I mentioned re. internal elements - some were much smaller than their cans, others were not. and they were the same parts. whats that if not rubbish QC?
you can buy whatever xxx brand caps you want. but if you want your equipment to run for decades, only buy the best brands.
I've only ever designed SMPS for >= 10 year operating life. which is why I only use the leading brands. every experience I've ever had (and there have been many) with other brands has been poor. Usually its like this:
Client - "we've been using these XXX caps, and are having field failures"
me - detailed analysis, "they are crap. dont use them"
the cheaper caps arent that much cheaper than the good ones, and they are never as good. just dont.
Johno, try reading your own first sentence. "manufacturing to a price point" = downgrade quality until price point hit. this is a problem, as lots of customers are interested in price alone, not quality & reliability (total cost of ownership). its not the fault of the factory, they are being asked to make lousy parts.
A while back I did a forensic review of a SMPS (used in mass-manufactured audio gear as it happens) & I got a bunch of Samxon GK caps sent directly to me from Samxon. and these were the ones I mentioned re. internal elements - some were much smaller than their cans, others were not. and they were the same parts. whats that if not rubbish QC?
you can buy whatever xxx brand caps you want. but if you want your equipment to run for decades, only buy the best brands.
Attachments
Thanks, Terry. WES Components in Oz have been selling them for years, and the Philips HT system I fiddle with, 10 years old, is full of them. So they're not a total disaster if not too heavily stressed, perhaps ...
BTW, sorry to hear that your wife is not the best, hope things get better soon ...
Regards,
Frank
BTW, sorry to hear that your wife is not the best, hope things get better soon ...
Regards,
Frank
I wouln't get those ones from ebay, They are either fakes, or old stock. Current Elna Silmic II's don't have gold on them (not sure if they did before or not).
Try parts connexion Elna Electrolytic Capacitors RFS Series , if you're order is less than 250g (including the packaging) the shipping cost should only be around $10 US.
I have found these two places:
Made in USA. (Manufacturer Elna America)
1). http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RFS-50V471MJ8%235/604-1128-ND/2171179
Japan
Made In Thailand (Thailand Factory Of Elna)
2). JAPAN 2PCS Elna Rfs silmic II 470uf 50V Silk audio Capacitor New diy HiFi | eBay
Sold in UK.
3) (ELNAS-159) - 470uF 50V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor Hifi Collective
What would you think is the best choice here to make? to me the No2 "Japan" strangely made in Thailand. The other one No1. Made in USA, which is feels, a bit better what would you think guys?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...lna-silmic-electrolytic-capacitor-p-6229.html
Made in USA. (Manufacturer Elna America)
1). http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RFS-50V471MJ8%235/604-1128-ND/2171179
Japan
Made In Thailand (Thailand Factory Of Elna)
2). JAPAN 2PCS Elna Rfs silmic II 470uf 50V Silk audio Capacitor New diy HiFi | eBay
Sold in UK.
3) (ELNAS-159) - 470uF 50V Elna Silmic II Electrolytic Capacitor Hifi Collective
What would you think is the best choice here to make? to me the No2 "Japan" strangely made in Thailand. The other one No1. Made in USA, which is feels, a bit better what would you think guys?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/cat...lna-silmic-electrolytic-capacitor-p-6229.html
One note which appears on the Tektronix newsgroup over and over is the high failure rate of tantalum electrolytics after many years of service. This being said, you can't just replace them with aluminum electrolytics. I've seen tantalums on a few of the Japanese receivers I've owned through the years.
Here's a suggestion: Start your own thread with this question, because your question is only tangentially related to the OP.
That is you are bringing this thread off-topic. The thread is about the lifetime of capacitors.
Your question is about a CD player upgrade.
Terry, did you check out Capacitor Distribution | Electronic Engineering Services - ICD Sales , plenty of data there? I note that they also have factories in Taiwan and Malaysia ...
Frank
In the mail-bag from EDN this afternoon -- note that you might have to close the commercial trailer which appears at the beginning:
Power Tip #50: Avoid these common aluminum electrolytic capacitor pitfalls | EDN
Power Tip #50: Avoid these common aluminum electrolytic capacitor pitfalls | EDN
yep to all the above -- all else being equal the 105C is usually better if you have to guess about it. - RNM
Frank,
yeah I did, and still wasnt happy with the datasheets. One ROT I have found very useful is this: If it isn't spec'd in the datasheet, its either lousy or not controlled.
Mostly my argument comes down to this: any arbitrary cap vendor is going to have to work very, very hard indeed to convince me to not buy the very best (as listed above). why would I want to try something new? The best possible outcome is that they are as good as the top manufacturers. Every other outcome is worse than this, and its a crapshoot - with the results only able to be determined some years down the track.
those Samxon caps I mentioned? the SMPS manufacturer changed from Rubycon to Samxon, and 6 months later the audio OEM started seeing problems - by the time I got involved it was >> 10,000 faulty units.
and for DIY purposes, the total amount of money saved is literally a few dollars. Do what you want, but dont be surprised if (when) you have problems with el-cheapo caps. And I'll laugh at you and say "I told you so"
yeah I did, and still wasnt happy with the datasheets. One ROT I have found very useful is this: If it isn't spec'd in the datasheet, its either lousy or not controlled.
Mostly my argument comes down to this: any arbitrary cap vendor is going to have to work very, very hard indeed to convince me to not buy the very best (as listed above). why would I want to try something new? The best possible outcome is that they are as good as the top manufacturers. Every other outcome is worse than this, and its a crapshoot - with the results only able to be determined some years down the track.
those Samxon caps I mentioned? the SMPS manufacturer changed from Rubycon to Samxon, and 6 months later the audio OEM started seeing problems - by the time I got involved it was >> 10,000 faulty units.
and for DIY purposes, the total amount of money saved is literally a few dollars. Do what you want, but dont be surprised if (when) you have problems with el-cheapo caps. And I'll laugh at you and say "I told you so"
Fair enough ... let those dogs keepa sleepin' ...
And, hope your wife is in better shape ...
BTW, my wife comes from across the ditch, used to live in Mount Roskill ...
Frank
Frank,
yeah thats exactly it. I had a similar discussion years back with a vendor who wanted us to switch to their parts. He said they could match (whomever)s price. I pointed out that there is no net benefit to us, and that we have to do a bunch of work to approve new vendor - so he'd have to do a lot better than just match their price. he left sans order.
thanks.
My auntie used to live directly across the road from the Mt Roskill fire station when I was a child. it used to be the highlight of a trip when the fire engines came racing out. Ah the joy of simple pleasures.
yeah thats exactly it. I had a similar discussion years back with a vendor who wanted us to switch to their parts. He said they could match (whomever)s price. I pointed out that there is no net benefit to us, and that we have to do a bunch of work to approve new vendor - so he'd have to do a lot better than just match their price. he left sans order.
thanks.
My auntie used to live directly across the road from the Mt Roskill fire station when I was a child. it used to be the highlight of a trip when the fire engines came racing out. Ah the joy of simple pleasures.
Our new-ish refrigerator failed for the same reason! This very expensive unit had 2 SMPS supplies. The service folks couldn't understand that failed caps caused the first SMPS to fail, causing the fan to fail etc., etc. There they were, sitting on the PCB bulging as if they wanted to give birth.
For want of a couple bucks they wound up paying $800 as the unit was under warranty.
SMPS in refrigerators?! Gettin' too fancy for me! I had a digital TV converter box fail on me; turned out it was just a failed electrolytic in the switching supply. Didn't even need to break out any test equipment to diagnose and fix that one, and saved me having to buy a new unit.
There's gotta be a better way than electrolytics for commodity switchers...
There's gotta be a better way than electrolytics for commodity switchers...
The EDN article referred to above states that the 23,000 hour life of a LED lamp is completely bogus since the electrolytic capacitors won't last more than a few thousand hours.
The "Kitchen Aid" used an SMPS to convert the line voltage to 3 phase in order to drive the motors more efficiently, or so one of the techs told me. The other SMPS powered the microcontrollers.
The "Kitchen Aid" used an SMPS to convert the line voltage to 3 phase in order to drive the motors more efficiently, or so one of the techs told me. The other SMPS powered the microcontrollers.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.