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Old 20th September 2012, 01:39 PM   #31
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Frank, I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole. I just trawled through their website, and the amount of data they provide is negligible. OTTOMH their lifetime figures didnt look crash hot, and the lack of datasheets scares me.
Terry, did you check out Capacitor Distribution | Electronic Engineering Services - ICD Sales , plenty of data there? I note that they also have factories in Taiwan and Malaysia ...

Frank
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Old 20th September 2012, 09:58 PM   #32
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In the mail-bag from EDN this afternoon -- note that you might have to close the commercial trailer which appears at the beginning:

Power Tip #50: Avoid these common aluminum electrolytic capacitor pitfalls | EDN
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Old 21st September 2012, 03:43 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Terry Given View Post
Indianajo,

indeed. the temperature rating alone isnt enough to base a purchasing decision upon. And although it too is necessary, I maintain that high rated lifetime isnt enough either.

there are a lot of really crappy cap manufacturers. there are very few that make excellent quality caps.
Nippon Chemicon, Nichicon, Rubycon, Panasonic

I have yet to find a better cap than a Rubycon ZLH. any datasheet that purports to do better is probably lying.
yep to all the above -- all else being equal the 105C is usually better if you have to guess about it. - RNM
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Old 21st September 2012, 05:07 AM   #34
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Frank,
yeah I did, and still wasnt happy with the datasheets. One ROT I have found very useful is this: If it isn't spec'd in the datasheet, its either lousy or not controlled.

Mostly my argument comes down to this: any arbitrary cap vendor is going to have to work very, very hard indeed to convince me to not buy the very best (as listed above). why would I want to try something new? The best possible outcome is that they are as good as the top manufacturers. Every other outcome is worse than this, and its a crapshoot - with the results only able to be determined some years down the track.

those Samxon caps I mentioned? the SMPS manufacturer changed from Rubycon to Samxon, and 6 months later the audio OEM started seeing problems - by the time I got involved it was >> 10,000 faulty units.

and for DIY purposes, the total amount of money saved is literally a few dollars. Do what you want, but dont be surprised if (when) you have problems with el-cheapo caps. And I'll laugh at you and say "I told you so"
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Old 21st September 2012, 05:24 AM   #35
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Frank,
yeah I did, and still wasnt happy with the datasheets. One ROT I have found very useful is this: If it isn't spec'd in the datasheet, its either lousy or not controlled.
Fair enough ... let those dogs keepa sleepin' ...

And, hope your wife is in better shape ...

BTW, my wife comes from across the ditch, used to live in Mount Roskill ...

Frank
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Old 21st September 2012, 05:33 AM   #36
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Frank,
yeah thats exactly it. I had a similar discussion years back with a vendor who wanted us to switch to their parts. He said they could match (whomever)s price. I pointed out that there is no net benefit to us, and that we have to do a bunch of work to approve new vendor - so he'd have to do a lot better than just match their price. he left sans order.

thanks.

My auntie used to live directly across the road from the Mt Roskill fire station when I was a child. it used to be the highlight of a trip when the fire engines came racing out. Ah the joy of simple pleasures.
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Old 21st September 2012, 01:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Given View Post
those Samxon caps I mentioned? the SMPS manufacturer changed from Rubycon to Samxon, and 6 months later the audio OEM started seeing problems - by the time I got involved it was >> 10,000 faulty units.
Our new-ish refrigerator failed for the same reason! This very expensive unit had 2 SMPS supplies. The service folks couldn't understand that failed caps caused the first SMPS to fail, causing the fan to fail etc., etc. There they were, sitting on the PCB bulging as if they wanted to give birth.

For want of a couple bucks they wound up paying $800 as the unit was under warranty.
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Old 21st September 2012, 06:53 PM   #38
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SMPS in refrigerators?! Gettin' too fancy for me! I had a digital TV converter box fail on me; turned out it was just a failed electrolytic in the switching supply. Didn't even need to break out any test equipment to diagnose and fix that one, and saved me having to buy a new unit.

There's gotta be a better way than electrolytics for commodity switchers...
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Old 21st September 2012, 07:31 PM   #39
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The EDN article referred to above states that the 23,000 hour life of a LED lamp is completely bogus since the electrolytic capacitors won't last more than a few thousand hours.

The "Kitchen Aid" used an SMPS to convert the line voltage to 3 phase in order to drive the motors more efficiently, or so one of the techs told me. The other SMPS powered the microcontrollers.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 12:12 AM   #40
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Yeah, I could see a SM inverter/controller for efficient motors, especially variable speed.
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