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Old 14th December 2002, 06:57 PM   #1
fezz is offline fezz  United Kingdom
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Default the black art of capacitorism

moring all, i have got to the point in building my zen and bride of zen where i need to get the capacitors for them.

i reaslise i need very good decoupling capacitors - so that means the 10uf and 1uf capacitors me thinks in the pre amp, but on the zen it looks like i need 4400uf worth of decoupling capacitors, is this true, and does this mean i need to buy very expensive capactiors or can i get away with generla purpose eletrolitics?

also, what type of capacitors should i use for the 1, and 10 uf in the pre amp, and most of all, where in the UK can i get them?
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Old 14th December 2002, 08:51 PM   #2
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I gpt 4 low ESR Philips caps for my outputs on the Zen.

They were the best combo of price/esr I could find in the farnell catalogue.

Farnell no 248 216 Beyschalg/Centralab (Philips) 100v 2200 uf

100hz ripple @ 105deg C 3.05A
ESR Max 20deg C 110Hz 86milliOhms
Impedance 10kHz 20 deg C 65milliohms

I only got to listen to them for about 30 seconds before my first lot of mosfets fried but what I heard sounded great!!

Cost in y2k was 25 bucks Australian each so you're only loooking at a bit over 50US for all four ifyou go this route.

Drew
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Old 15th December 2002, 12:56 AM   #3
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I used Nichicon Muse 2200uF. They work pretty well at the output.
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Old 15th December 2002, 01:10 AM   #4
halojoy is offline halojoy  Sweden
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Default Re: the black art of capacitorism

Quote:
Originally posted by fezz
morning all,
also, what type of capacitors should i use for the 1, and 10 uf in the pre amp, and most of all, where in the UK can i get them?
mornin' yourself
I like to be resistence addicted
so I would like a chat of resistors - with anyone

until then I will follow this capacitorism thing
with wideopen eyes
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Old 15th December 2002, 06:29 AM   #5
halojoy is offline halojoy  Sweden
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anyone for discuss

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Old 15th December 2002, 10:01 AM   #6
fezz is offline fezz  United Kingdom
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ok, so what makes a good capacitor, low ESR is one of them, what about anything else?

i am using standard 1% 50ppm resistors in my zen, looking at the prices when i bought them, a normal 1% tolerance 1/4 watt resistor cost 1.2p , as similar 0.1% resistor could cost up to 120p each - i seriously doubt that the price increase is worth whatever the better reistsor will give you....

what will a 'better' resistor give you anyway?

i seriously doubt it will sound better, as they are both metal film, and in therory a metal film resistor should sound the same as another

also a tolerance of 1% is quite good, i dont feel the need to go to a better tolerance
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Old 15th December 2002, 10:35 AM   #7
fezz is offline fezz  United Kingdom
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ok i have found these:
http://uk1.farnell.com/Search/level_...02&SKUID=52887

they look good, however i am thinking that a single 4700uf capacitor would be better, is that right?
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Old 15th December 2002, 12:36 PM   #8
khush is offline khush  United Kingdom
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Hi Fezz

I'm not sure that low esr is the best indicator of capacitor sound quality especially for coupling caps. boutique electronic caps (usually) do sound better, It is a matter of judgement what would sound best at any price point, I am sure a search of the archives here and at audio asylum would provide plenty of opinions.
here are some links to some Uk suppliers I have dealt with.

http://www.audiocominternational.com/

http://www.audionote.co.uk

http://www.geocities.com/audiograde/

My personal recomendations would be audyn KP sn for input, Muse KZ or silmic for 10 microF electros. The large electolytics are likely to be very expensive so maybe a standard industrial part Bypassed with a higher quality electrolytic.

Good luck
Khush
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Old 16th December 2002, 03:18 PM   #9
fezz is offline fezz  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by khush
Hi Fezz

I'm not sure that low esr is the best indicator of capacitor sound quality especially for coupling caps. boutique electronic caps (usually) do sound better, It is a matter of judgement what would sound best at any price point, I am sure a search of the archives here and at audio asylum would provide plenty of opinions.
here are some links to some Uk suppliers I have dealt with.

http://www.audiocominternational.com/

http://www.audionote.co.uk

http://www.geocities.com/audiograde/

My personal recomendations would be audyn KP sn for input, Muse KZ or silmic for 10 microF electros. The large electolytics are likely to be very expensive so maybe a standard industrial part Bypassed with a higher quality electrolytic.

Good luck
Khush
hmm.... bypassing....

(quick search later)

so the idea is to use a good film capacitor with some eletrolitics so get better performance - do i just put it in parallel with the eletrolitics?
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Old 16th December 2002, 06:16 PM   #10
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Lightbulb If you want to take the guesswork out...

You will buy the reprints of 'Electronics World' articles series by Cyril Bateman called 'Capacitor sound'.
http://www.softcopy.co.uk/reprints1.htm

The author measures distortion components with a unique method he's developed and details in the article.

He measures all sorts of capacitors at millivolt and volt levels, with 0.1 and 1 kHz signals, single and series pairs, biased and not.

I think this stuff is so good that I can't believe anybody has been mad enough not to do it before

He even shows that Black Gate do not cut it and there are better and cheaper (?) alternatives.

You can also buy a cd-rom from the author with most measurement results already done, pcb drawings of the measurement equipment and lots of cap info.

I may sound like an advert for this stuff, but I'm not. At least i don't get a penny, don't even know the author and have no affiliation with the magazine, except having bought 3 of the 6 issues where the article series ran (Jan/2003 being the lates).

The bad thing is of course that the articles series takes a lot of 'black magic' out of capacitor selection for many applications.

I sincerely recommend this article series and/or the cd from the author.

THe author can be contacted via:

C. Bateman
Nimrod
New Road
ACLE
Norfolk, NR13 3BD
England
UK

regards,
Halcyon
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