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Old 1st February 2003, 08:17 PM   #71
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Default PLUTO AND MARS

Hi,

Quote:
Has anyone ever tried the beeswax caps Jupiter is making?
I forgot this part...

Apparently a new brand,I noticed Welborne Labs carry them amongst others and some Dutch guys put them to the test already with very promising results.

Brian Cherry is one of our members and runs an audio business in China,dealing tubes and high-end components.

Cheers,
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Old 1st February 2003, 08:58 PM   #72
jcarr is offline jcarr  United States
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As long as the film cap value is not too big, you can use a precision AC millivoltmeter to check the polarity. Ground yourself, hold the cap body in your bare hand, hook up the millivoltmeter input to the cap leads (first with plus to one lead, minus to the other, then flip the leads) and look at how much the needle swings (you may need to switch the range setting on the millivoltmeter). The polarity that gives the lower needle swing is the "right" one.

Mark the film cap, and use it thereafter in the same orientation that you would use an electrolytic cap. Most film caps sound smoother and a little darker when the outer foil is connected to ground, or the signal output side (the side at the lower voltage potential).

In practice, if I have unmarked film caps that I plan to use, I will test them all in one sitting. It doesn't take that long.

regards, jonathan carr
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Old 1st February 2003, 09:33 PM   #73
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Default POLARITY TEST.

Hi,

The whole procedure sounds a lot like the one used for checking leakage current on chassis of hi-fi gear when you need to determine the correct polarity for the mains plug.

Thanks again for the nice trick,
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Old 1st February 2003, 10:52 PM   #74
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Hi Frank,

Thanks for the info on Jupiters, and I should be interested to see in due course what people think of them generally.

**Cap Sexing** (don't mention this to Eric! )

Jonathan's method looks to be quicker to set up, but I would be interested to know what the size limitations are which he mentioned.

I will try out Jonathan's way next time, but in any case, my suggestion will deal with all sizes which I have tried (including 100uF's), but, as I mentioned, with the larger values it is better to keep the voltage a bit lower, as momentarily (as they charge up) the big caps look like a 'short' to the generater, and there is no current limiter.

Also as Jonathan suggested, once you have the setup to hand, it is so easy to sit there and sex dozens of them in a few minutes, as it really isn't in any way critical.

One thing I didn't mention before, is that I have come accross an occasional 'rogue' cap, which didn't show very positive 'differences' when initially tried, and subsequently the very marginally larger signal turned out to be wrong way, if you see what I mean, as when I got a better defined reading, the opposite orientation turned out to be correct.

That's why I mentioned the caveat that if you don't see clearly different readings, move the bits around and try again.

I think in those cases that the ends of the foil must have been overlapped or cut short or something, as I couldn't be bothered to cut them up to see.

When I first considered the subject, it took me an hour or so of
thinking and a little while trying out some different coils I had lying around, together with trying the best scope settings etc., but once a working method was found, it seemed so easy.

The great thing about the Forum is the way we can share ideas like this, provided of course one doesn't get into the furore I just did with the 'oxidation' thread. I must have wasted many hours on that because of the amazing remarks which came out of the woodwork, and I confess to having been quite fed-up at one point. Little wonder that J-P pushed off for a while!

The consolation was in finally seeing Niclas' (the original enquirer) appreciative comments and that he is intending to try out what I had suggested. If he does, it will work OK, just like the cap sexing does.

When I said "give the guy a bit of credit", this was a leg pull over your post to Peter which suggested you thought I wasn't aware of the existance of such a thing!

I tell you man, I have been around for over 30 years playing about with these bits and 'listening' to them, and I have picked up one or two little tips in all that time.
I have certainly learned enough not to get blown away by the big gun arm-chair theorists, anyway!!

Regards,
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Old 1st February 2003, 11:06 PM   #75
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Yes I have used the super E=Cap configuration. First, I love the BG's especially the N/NX series. Super E cap seems to keep the same tonal balance as a single NX but adds a little more extension and a bit more refined and a a lomer noise floor. Not a huge difference but a step in the right direction with no downsides in my applications.
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Old 1st February 2003, 11:13 PM   #76
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Default CAPS.

Hi,

Quote:
Jonathan's method looks to be quicker to set up, but I would be interested to know what the size limitations are which he mentioned.
IME,the size limit of the cap will be dependent on your meters' capability to respond.

I think a size up to 50 mF would be usable in most cases.

Quote:
Cap Sexing
He talks too much about it anyway....love the man though.

Quote:
One thing I didn't mention before, is that I have come accross an occasional 'rogue' cap, which didn't show very positive 'differences' when initially tried, and subsequently the very marginally larger signal turned out to be wrong way, if you see what I mean, as when I got a better defined reading, the opposite orientation turned out to be correct.
Just as with valves,Bob,that cap wouldn't get a chance to see the real life.Out.

Quote:
The great thing about the Forum is the way we can share ideas like this, provided of course one doesn't get into the furore I just did with the 'oxidation' thread. I must have wasted many hours on that because of the amazing remarks which came out of the woodwork, and I confess to having been quite fed-up at one point. Little wonder that J-P pushed off for a while!
One thing I learned is that there's no point in playing "Don Quichote".
The windmills are stronger,Bob.

Quote:
When I said "give the guy a bit of credit", this was a leg pull over your post to Peter which suggested you thought I wasn't aware of the existance of such a thing!
Sorry about the mishap.

Quote:
I have picked up one or two little tips in all that time.
If only I could remember all of the tips I received....

Quote:
I have certainly learned enough not to get blown away by the big gun arm-chair theorists, anyway!!
A lot of theory is based on assumptions to make people understand that ultimately it is just that...theory.

Cheers,

\Frank,"whatchening" Rumble Fish on the tele.
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Old 1st February 2003, 11:20 PM   #77
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Jonathan,

Thanks for sharing your method of sexing caps. It looks to be quicker to set up than my suggestion, so I will try that next time.

I wonder why it doesn't work with the larger caps which you suggest, as one would have thought that the proximity of the hand to the outer foil would be much the same regardless of size.

I didn't say so in my earlier post as it was getting a bit wordy anyway, but I also found with some caps I could sex them using my suggested method, but by holding the caps (like you) instead of applying a voltage to the leads.
In some cases there was no need to even hold them, strangely, and there was still a positive difference.

Another method (which I have just remembered) was to connect the caps lead to the 'scope, and then move the cap close to an unshielded cable so it would pick up the radiated mains field.

It is really a question of what test gear is to hand, I suppose.

Just thinking about those DIYers who don't have much test gear readily to hand, I wonder if some signal could be induced in a caps' leads by proximity of the cap to the mains, perhaps, and use this to drive some kind of sensitive transducer?

Or a phono pre-amp, perhaps?

It would depend on relative signal levels and associated impedances, I guess. Have you any thoughts on this?

There must be dozens of different ways, but the one I had suggested did appear to be completely universal, although with hindsight, maybe not many DIYers will have the test gear needed.

Regards,
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Old 2nd February 2003, 09:04 AM   #78
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Pontow
Yes I have used the super E=Cap configuration. First, I love the BG's especially the N/NX series. Super E cap seems to keep the same tonal balance as a single NX but adds a little more extension and a bit more refined and a a lomer noise floor. Not a huge difference but a step in the right direction with no downsides in my applications.
Hi Brad,

You got it in one, and I couldn't agree more with your description of the sonic results using the 'Super E Cap' configuration.

In this country (UK) we have a saying if something is rather expensive that "it costs an arm & a leg", and perhaps the only snag with super E, is that "it costs two arms & two legs"

Not that I have any vested interest because I would immediately switch to another make of cap if I found it to be better, but after all the naysayers' nonsense which cropped up a while ago on the Forum, I am pleased to see some 'independant' support for these very good sounding caps.

It is still a fact that no-one who has posted on the Forum,*and who has actually listened to BGs*, has said that they didn't like them as far as their sound goes!

Craig Buckingham has suggested some Jensen's which he believes are better-sounding in some circuits, but so far I haven't managed to get any to make a comparison. If Craig is right and they universally outperform Non-Polar BGs, then those Jensens have really got to be something!!!

Regards,
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Old 2nd February 2003, 01:17 PM   #79
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Default Re: CAPS.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fdegrove
[B]Hi,

Hi Frank,


***IME,the size limit of the cap will be dependent on your meters' capability to respond.

I think a size up to 50 mF would be usable in most cases.***

I am not sure here why the size of the cap should much alter the stray field or whatever is being picked up in such a test, but I have asked Jonathan and maybe he will let us know, and next time I do some 'sexing', I will try and see for myself.



***He talks too much about it anyway....love the man though.***

You are quite right, as usual. See my comments to Eric re. those who talk and don't do!

***One thing I learned is that there's no point in playing "Don Quichote".
The windmills are stronger,Bob.***

I know you are right again, of course, but I hate to see perhaps less experienced folks either from being deterred from trying things out for themselves, or being led astray by such apparently authoritative comments.



***Sorry about the mishap.***

No need for any apology, I was only "pulling your leg"



***If only I could remember all of the tips I received....***

Same with me Frank, very few of the multitude of things I have ever tried were the result of my own 'virgin' thoughts.
Mostly they were sparked off by someone else's comments or hearing about their field trials.

I have done a bit of original thinking in my time, usually because I have hit a snag with something new I am trying to do, and there is no widely known-answer. That is why I will willingly 'expose' my results, even where they are not good, if the occasion arises.

The Internet is Godsend for this, and if people don't wish to take any notice they can switch over to another channel, can't they. In fact a couple of days ago, I was sorely tempted to say this to a certain TV person, but it seems he cannot read correctly, anyway!



***A lot of theory is based on assumptions to make people understand that ultimately it is just that...theory.***

Yes, I too have a lot of theories about theory!!!


Lunchtime calls, Frank.

Regards,
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Old 2nd February 2003, 01:35 PM   #80
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Bob,

I happen to have 2 pcs. of those Jensen caps (10,000u/50V),Craig mentioned. A friend of mine brought them from Hong Kong recently. Didn't have a chance to try them yet.
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