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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:03 PM   #11
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Mine too. The risk is however that you can overrate audio gear by looking only at component quality and / or looks, don't you think ?

I have heard gear with standard components that were terribly built and sounded great ( a once in a lifetime experience ? )
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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:07 PM   #12
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You have to start with something, aren't you?
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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:08 PM   #13
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Hi Jean-Paul,

Absolutely.
Some manufacturers misuse that as a marketing ploy.
But we are a bit smarter then those aren't we?
I hope nobody is that foolish but experience has shown me differently.
Way back then I was the one to keep on insisting with some of my partners they'd better use good quality (soundwise at least)
components.
That took some convincing,believe me.

Rgds,
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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:15 PM   #14
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Hello Frank,

Quote:
That took some convincing,believe me.
I can just see the quarreling in my mind, ha ha ! "No Frank, that Black Gates may sound good but they are way too expensive for us"

I recall a thread on this forum about the use of the red Wima MKP that are used frequently by high end manefacturers because the customers like the colour !
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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:21 PM   #15
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Jean-Paul,

You're spot on.
Got my first grey hairs just from that.
The silly thing about it now is that some don't care about designing a decent circuit anymore,they just stuff the damn thing with whatever is trendy and it sells.
Well,I think they just add to the numbers of DIY'ers at the end of the day.
Short term politics,aargh!

Cheers,

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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Once you get the hang of things like that you can often already tell what some gear is going to sound like just by looking at it.
Does that mean if you use Tantalum resistors that the sound will be, 'Tantalizing'?

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:30 PM   #17
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OK Frank, but I think we DIY ers do the same too ! I am sure when an audiofriend shows you his newly built amp you want to take a peek inside and when you see Silmic or the like you will like the amp almost automatically.

Wasn't it H.H. that made all parts unrecognisable because it would give a wrong impression if people saw the partbrands ? I may be wrong that it was H.H.

Best testing is A-B with the gear behind curtains. After listening there will be time for looking at the gear and maybe inside.
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Old 22nd October 2002, 02:51 PM   #18
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Brett,
could not agree more.

Jean-Paul and all,

are you manufacturer? No?
Do you have to observe public opinion about your gear's sonics? No?

Then forgetabout A-B-blindtesting. You are just finding out how your mind responds to being under test situation

Solder the junk in and then make long-term observations how sonics changed and influence your emotions and focus *on the long run*. Good or bad on the long run?
If ya wanna listen to music instead to gear, that is the answer you are after.
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Old 22nd October 2002, 03:16 PM   #19
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Bernhard, do I really have to use junk parts ? They don't look good.
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Old 22nd October 2002, 03:43 PM   #20
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Wasn't it H.H. that made all parts unrecognisable because it would give a wrong impression if people saw the partbrands ? I may be wrong that it was H.H.

In this age of yuppie brandname recognition this an interesting subject. I started playing with Vishay and Rel-Cap both they were household names in it was more fun because "self proclaimed" expert did not look at a piece of equipment and decided it was good or not good by the component brand name. Like Vibram soles, Gortex jackets, and Starbucks coffee, it is just Yuppie Consumerism. Many designers hate this of the record since they have to play this game and pay rediculous prices and wait for specialty parts to become available to schedule equipement builds. It can put you out of business.


Jocko Homo and I call this wire of the week syndrome. It is really quite funny because there are many caps that are good enough that choice of a particular brand is often dependent on the designer final sonic preferences, a process called voicing a circuit.
Many companies brand thier caps to avoid this problem. Companies like Conrad Johnston brand caps to maintain competitive advantages. It is not to your advantage to have your competion knowing all your secrets and audio circuits are pretty easy to reverse engineer. Jocko Homo and I love to find good caps without cult status and sometimes remove the marks fron them. We call these"Mystery Caps" And some companies like Passlabs have the guts to refuse to play the "Consumer Component" game altogether. It is really funny and I actually enjoy building circuits with good qualtity components all through the circuit instead of devoting the parts buget to a handful of "Yuppy" parts.

Back soon after I started the local Vishay cult among the local tweakers, a local Rowland Research salesman and Yuppie Extroidinare had Jeff R. build him a Coherence preamp with Vishays. A list of the values for the resistors was obtained fron Jeff and several hundred dollars worth were purchased and sent to Mr. Rowland for said preamp. I was there when the salesman took the top off the one off preamp. All the resitors were used inside the potted modules and all the external resistors were still
standard issue. Now I know Jeff and he is a strait up guy and I knew the resistors went into the canned modules, but i said to the salesman " How do you even know thet are in there if you can't see them?" Jocko and and still fall down laughing when we tell this story.

Fred
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