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Old 6th February 2003, 06:54 AM   #131
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By the way, Dale resistors all have magnetic end caps in my experience; I do find various metal film types such as Mepco-Electra may be non-magnetic, but I can't always be a purist. [/B][/QUOTE]
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Not Dale RN55 or 60C. They are fine, middle of the road!
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Old 6th February 2003, 07:00 AM   #132
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Physically, the TX2353 is less rugged than the S102K, but isn't fragile per se. Handle it with reasonable care, and you should have no problems. The resistive wafer may appear "nude", but it is coated with a transparent and fairly strong insulative coating, so you don't need to worry about inadverdent short-circuits. Lead pitch is the same as the S102K (3.81mm, I believe), so a TX2352 can replace an S102K with no layout changes.

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The S102K has silicon damping built in and I did wonder how this might affect sonics. There may also be a difference in microphony if the TXs are not damped.

If you are in Japan, the Alpha range is good and used in high end Japanese gear. They are also more reasonably priced even in UK.
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Old 6th February 2003, 07:50 PM   #133
jcarr is offline jcarr  United States
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I've tried Vishay resistive elements in a wide variety of packages. Plastic molded with silicon damping (S102K), dip-molded, metal can with silicon damping, can with oil, "nude" (TX2352), and a couple of other prototypes. Based on those experiments, I can say that applying physical damping to a resistor does alter the sound, and the choice is down to application and personal tastes. I myself prefer too little damping to too much damping.

Critical damping is the best, but doing this requires that you adjust the amount of damping applied to each resistor, and be willing to back off if you feel that the sound is becoming overdamped. And be prepared to readjust the damping if you change anything else in the amplifier, or for that matter, your entire system!

>If you are in Japan, the Alpha range is good and used in high end Japanese gear.<

I am in Japan, and I do have experience with the Alpha range (also sold as "Wilbrecht"). Alpha's ability to fabricate resistors in values below 5 ohms (which for the most part, Vishay is unable to) is an invaluable resource. But where the same values are available from either company, sonically I would recommend the Vishays. Nonetheless, feel free to experiment, as our respective applications and preferences may differ.

regards, jonathan carr
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Old 7th February 2003, 09:22 AM   #134
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I am in Japan, and I do have experience with the Alpha range (also sold as &quot;Wilbrecht&quot. Alpha's ability to fabricate resistors in values below 5 ohms (which for the most part, Vishay is unable to) is an invaluable resource. But where the same values are available from either company, sonically I would recommend the Vishays. Nonetheless, feel free to experiment, as our respective applications and preferences may differ.

regards, jonathan carr [/B][/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------

My experience is that there is no one brand of resistor that is always better. Depends on the rest of the circuit. Alphas have the advantage of being physically small when needed, and can be used in surface mount boards and rf (tuner) boards.

Generalising, the alphs seem to have a more rounded sound than Vishays.




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Old 7th February 2003, 10:12 AM   #135
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Default Re: FUNNY.

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi,



Yep...and that's one reason why one shouldn't care about it that much.

Mind you,the directivity is still there...I put the topic to my younger brother,a nuclear scientist, and all he muttered was something about conditioning...he lost me on that one though.

Cheers,
Hi,

Having drawn many wires by hand over the years, and understanding what happens to them physically, it should be no surprise that there is some directionality.

Basically, a shorter thicker piece of metal is stretched and formed by pulling it through ever decreasing tapered holes in a die, until it reaches the required diameter and surface finish etc. This reduction can be many thousandfold, but will always be a factor of tens to hundreds I guess.

As a result of this process, the crystalline structure will become 'distorted' (from how it started out) in a very directional manner.

If you imagine that a wire could somehow be marked across its section by slicing through it and marking this join which would be all in one plane (i.e.flat), if after the drawing process you checked this in section again, you will find that the earlier flat section has been changed to a cone shape, with the point of the cone facing the 'start' of the wire.

This physical distortion will be consistent all along the wire, so that any 'crystals' or whatever which were previously running at right-angles to the wire direction and from the centre of the wire outwards, will then be lying at an angle from the centre outwards, and facing backwards towards the trailing or end part of the wire.

It is harder to explain than I anticipated, but I have seen this effect quite clearly when the original 'billet' was made from two pieces of metal soldered together, end-to-end, before the wire was drawn, and the colour of the solder at the join revealed this effect.

What happens is that the circular hole in the die tends to 'hold back' the passage of the metal through the die as a result of friction, whereas, nearer the centre of the wire, this frictional resistance doesn't exist, so the centre core of the wire moves through the die more easily, and ends up 'leading' the metal at the outer circumference.

This has a marked affect on the surface finish as well, as can be seen under high magnification.


As far as I can see, no-one has answered the question about how one can identify the directionality of resistors, and whether (unlike caps, mostly!) there is any consistency compared with say the resistor's markings.

Does anyone know a reliable way of identifying the correct way, without having to try *every* one both ways, one at a time? (i.e. a test like the one I explained in another thread about 'sexing' capacitors.)


Regards,
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Old 7th February 2003, 11:27 AM   #136
jcarr is offline jcarr  United States
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>My experience is that there is no one brand of resistor that is always better.<

Certainly.

>Depends on the rest of the circuit.<

And the rest of the audio system, how it is set up, local power and RF conditions, the preferences of the listener, and so on.

>Alphas have the advantage of being physically small when needed, and can be used in surface mount boards and rf (tuner) boards.<

Just like Vishay, Alpha makes resistors in S102-style molded plastic, dip-molded packages, semiconductor-style power packages, oscillator-style metal cans, a variety of surface-mount packages, and more. When it comes to variety in surface-mount packages, it is Vishay that has the wider selection. Where Alpha has a leg up on Vishay is in low-impedance surface-mount packages. These are nominally made for current-sensing applications, but if you are willing to pay for custom artwork and minimum quantities, Alpha will fabricate these in values up to 2~3 ohms. I often use them for snubber networks myself.

>Generalising, the alphs seem to have a more rounded sound than Vishays.<

The words "more murky" also come to mind...

regards, jonathan carr
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Old 7th February 2003, 01:55 PM   #137
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Default Resistors In Oposition.....

Anybody tried using two resistors in parallel in opposite directions and noted any sonic differences ?.
Or two half value resistors in series, wired in oppsite directions ?.

Eric.
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Old 7th February 2003, 02:22 PM   #138
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Default Re: Resistors In Oposition.....

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
Anybody tried using two resistors in parallel in opposite directions and noted any sonic differences ?.
Or two half value resistors in series, wired in oppsite directions ?.

Eric.
Hi Eric,

Whenever I need to adopt either of these methods to get the resistance or power handling right, I always do this is a matter of course.

This is just in case there could be any directional effects.

However, perhaps rather strangely with hindsight, I have never carried out any serious listening tests to see if it seemed to make any difference if the orientations were reversed etc.

Knowing what I do about wires and caps etc, I am amazed now the subject has arisen, that I have never tried any such tests on resistors before!

Talk about overlooking the b*e*d*n* obvious!!!

Have a good weekend.


Regards,
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Old 7th February 2003, 02:35 PM   #139
UrSv is offline UrSv  Sweden
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Well, then I would like to add one iteration of the tests in case somebody was planning on taking shortcuts (No?). If we try by connecting two resistors in parallell we basically should not hear any difference depending on which way we turn the parallell combo. However if we connect two resistors in series we, IMHO, need not only test that but also the way in which we connect them. So given a resistor with one end labelled A and the other labelled B we need to test:

---AB--BA--- as well as ---BA--AB---

I am quite certain that some specific Swedish music will be pleasant through the first version. As for the other I don't know...

How's that Peter for giving you more tests to do?
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Old 7th February 2003, 03:04 PM   #140
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Hi UrSv,

What about ---AB---AB v ---BA---BA , in series as well !

Then you have the parallel AB//AB--- v ---- BA//BA

However, before I spend any time on trying these out, I wish to be sure of the resistors' orientation compared with their markings, and some assurance that any such markings are consistent, which, as I said before about capacitors, is not necessarily so.

The difference is that (as I said in the cap 'sexing' instructions) I know how to check a film cap's physical oriention by measurement, but I don't know of any way to reach a conclusion about resistors as I haven't yet found any parameters in measuring *any* resistors which are different one way from the other!

Regards,

Edit: My 'pattern' of the parallel resistors above keeps on changing from what I have typed, when I make the post. What I tried to show here is AB in // with AB, & BA in // with BA.

(Looks like 4th time I finally cracked it now!)
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