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Old 13th December 2013, 11:49 AM   #11
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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maybe its similar to when saying humans needs heroes, myths, and dreams

a dream about fantastic components that will transform simple and boring electronics
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
on the question of are they low esr, I just did a test and they appear to be.

tested

1. Nichicon FG 10uF 50 V 1.2 Ohms
2. generic 10uF 50V 1.4 ohms
3. rubycon ZA 10uF 50V .7 Ohms

note I did this test once before but had a panasonic FC instead of the Nichicon. it was 10uF 50V and measured about 3 Ohms.

so I'd say since panasonic FC's are low esr and rubycon ZA's are ultra low impedance, the FG (muse) is not to shabby in that respect....

from the datasheets the FG and ZA have the same leakage, and the ZA has the edge in DF, but the FG's come in higher voltage versions than the ZA, and their DF gets better as the voltage exceeds the highest rated ZA.

whether or not this means anything

I used speaker workshop to measure.... the FG was 9.9uF the ZA 9.3 and the generic 8.6..... but on a sample of one all this could be complete BS

ok to add a little more credibility I tested the other two nichicon FG's I had, both 9.9uF both 1.1 Ohms, so one thing that seems to be the case from my small sample is that the tolerance is really tight. I only have one rubycon ZA......

Tony.
A quick question. Why did you only try one frequency?

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Old 13th December 2013, 05:05 PM   #13
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
A quick question. Why did you only try one frequency?

jn
Doesn't Speaker Workshop use an MLS stimulus to measure impedance?
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
Doesn't Speaker Workshop use an MLS stimulus to measure impedance?
Couldn't tell ya. I saw the single datapoint for resistance and capacitance, and assumed that meant one frequency.

If I were worried about how "audio grade" a capacitor was, I'd want the date for capacitance and resistance across the entire audio spectrum. I've seen lots of lytic datasheets which show capacitance taking a dive with frequency.

jn

ps..been kinda tired of late...started last Saturday...mebbe I caught sumptin... how bout you?
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:32 PM   #15
SY is offline SY  United States
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It must be the residual of getting bombed for Pearl Harbor Day.
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:46 PM   #16
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It must be the residual of getting bombed for Pearl Harbor Day.
I almost lost my coffee on that one. Would you believe I've never heard that?


jn
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Old 16th December 2013, 11:57 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by fpitas View Post
I've noticed that various audio grade electrolytics have some damping material in them (silk, hemp, etc). Perhaps the intention is to lower microphonic effects, either from external sources or internal resonance.
Most probably, particularly for loudspeaker crossover networks, where current input is much higher, the caps could actually "sing" or mechanically vibrate.
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Old 17th December 2013, 06:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post
A quick question. Why did you only try one frequency?

jn
Because I didn't really know what I was doing?? It was 8 years ago, it would be interesting to compare the same caps with my BlueESR meter, I'd forgotten that SW actually gave the esr, so would be interesting to compare results (the blueESR does only use a single frequency from memory).

and yes SY SW does use a MLS to do the measurement.

Tony.
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Old 17th December 2013, 09:37 AM   #19
SY is offline SY  United States
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OK, so you did your measurement across the board, not at a single frequency. With SoundEasy and AudioTester, the software gives a fit to a simple model and will spit out a DCR (usually called RE).
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Old 17th December 2013, 02:43 PM   #20
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So the capacitance and esr are independent of frequency? I'm not sure that is accurate.

Single data points may be very misleading.

jn
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