Resistor Sound Quality? - Page 2

Upupa Epops · 25th October 2005, 09:16 AM

" Taste " of resistors .... remember De Gaule : "... nation with two hundred and fifty sorts of cheese... "

dhaen · 25th October 2005, 09:57 AM

.
I have never "heard" any difference in sound between resistor types, except carbon composition when used at high voltage, where they sometimes exhibit a slight VDR effect.
That doesn't mean I don't advocate high quality resistors. They will be more accurate, more stable over time, and less liable to failure (which could affect audio quality). But which ones to choose is really down to budget, cosmetics and supply.
Time is much better spent considering sound engineering principles of electronic design and thermal management.

Upupa Epops · 25th October 2005, 10:10 AM

Little instability of carbon ones can cause " coloration " of sound, which in some cases can enjoy ... So go on, guys, amp without distortion is boredom....

Panelhead · 25th October 2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by klitgt
Carbon composite resistors are known by audio-, guitar- and vintage people for their very clean and natural sound.

Composite resistors differ from film resistors in that they consist of a little tube with a composite carbon resistor material inside. This makes the resistance, so you only have a few mm (tenth of an inch) of material in the signal.

A film resistor is made by carving a channel into a carbon (or metal) film on a glass or ceramic tube, resulting sometimes in meters (feet) of material in the signal! Also a film resistor always has inductance , composite resistors don't.

Allen-Bradley is the brand to look for. They are far less expensive than the brands mentioned above by member float.

I really like the AB carbon comps also. The leads on the 1/2 watt do not fit holes drilled for modern metal films. This is about the downside I have seen.
The drift up in value should not be an issue. Always measure and match all resistors. A twenty year old resistor has drifted about all it is going to.
One modern metal film that is real nice is the brown bodied Dale CMF55. These are extremely neutral and totally non-magnetic.
I shop for resistors with a magnet in my pocket. If the resistor sticks to the magnet it stays in the bin. Several of the resistors listed as favorites have either steel end caps on the body, or worse yet, steel leads.

George

astouffer · 25th October 2005, 10:22 AM

Whats the deal with magnetic leads or end caps? Will 1nH of inductance really affect your amp with a bandwidth of maybe 50khz? I can't even get an inductance reading with a metal film resistor on a HP 4192A LCZ meter. Thats up to 13Mhz. Will it make a difference at UHF, probably. At audio frequencies, no.

Upupa Epops · 25th October 2005, 10:23 AM

George, what about to try virgule ?

Or sideric pendulum ?

Christer · 25th October 2005, 11:16 AM

John,

it is intersting that you mention VDR effects, since that is seldom discussed. All, or almost all, types of resistor have a voltage dependent resistance, some types more than others. I don't think I have ever seen any figures, but presumably the voltage dependency is quite small. There is also a potential secondary VDR effect from heating, since the resistance is also temperature dependent. Both of these effects are likely negligible for most resistors in an amplifier, they will both be swamped by other non-linearities and corrected by feedback. However, there is one resistor that both sees large voltage swings and cannot be corrected by feedback, namely the feedback resistor. So if there is any resistor in amplifier that may cause an audible effect at all, I would suggest this one to be the primary candidate for experiments. If it is not possible to hear a difference between different types of feedback resistors, then I strongly doubt it is possible to hear a difference for any other resistor.

SY · 25th October 2005, 11:23 AM

Besides voltage coefficient of resistance, the other major issue is noise. Carbon comps are the worst in that regard. I use them as grid-stoppers for high-level circuits where the noise and drift are not an issue.

TCR isn't an issue for signal because of thermal inertia. It is an issue for filters and places where matching is important (e.g., plate loads). Again, the carbon comps come off worst.

So of course, carbon comps will become fashionable.

sagarverma · 25th October 2005, 11:29 AM

carbon res,in high temp environment like car ,have a temperature noise associated with them but metal films apart from being highly accurate dont have such probs.
in general cases,there is not much difference.
i prefer mf but until i have no other choice

Upupa Epops · 25th October 2005, 11:30 AM

To SY : Is this pic from Bloodwin Pig ?

25th October 2005, 09:57 AM	#12
dhaen diyAudio Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: U.K.	The "Cheddar" of resistors.... . I have never "heard" any difference in sound between resistor types, except carbon composition when used at high voltage, where they sometimes exhibit a slight VDR effect. That doesn't mean I don't advocate high quality resistors. They will be more accurate, more stable over time, and less liable to failure (which could affect audio quality). But which ones to choose is really down to budget, cosmetics and supply. Time is much better spent considering sound engineering principles of electronic design and thermal management.

25th October 2005, 11:23 AM	#18
SY diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX Blog Entries: 1	Besides voltage coefficient of resistance, the other major issue is noise. Carbon comps are the worst in that regard. I use them as grid-stoppers for high-level circuits where the noise and drift are not an issue. TCR isn't an issue for signal because of thermal inertia. It is an issue for filters and places where matching is important (e.g., plate loads). Again, the carbon comps come off worst. So of course, carbon comps will become fashionable. __________________ “Listening to records is like ****ing a picture of Brigitte Bardot.” - Sergiu Celibidache

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25th October 2005, 09:16 AM	#11
Upupa Epops diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Prague,Czech Republic	" Taste " of resistors .... remember De Gaule : "... nation with two hundred and fifty sorts of cheese... "

25th October 2005, 10:10 AM	#13
Upupa Epops diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Prague,Czech Republic	Little instability of carbon ones can cause " coloration " of sound, which in some cases can enjoy ... So go on, guys, amp without distortion is boredom....

25th October 2005, 10:22 AM	#15
astouffer diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, crumbling wasteland	Whats the deal with magnetic leads or end caps? Will 1nH of inductance really affect your amp with a bandwidth of maybe 50khz? I can't even get an inductance reading with a metal film resistor on a HP 4192A LCZ meter. Thats up to 13Mhz. Will it make a difference at UHF, probably. At audio frequencies, no.

25th October 2005, 10:23 AM	#16
Upupa Epops diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Prague,Czech Republic	George, what about to try virgule ? Or sideric pendulum ?

25th October 2005, 11:16 AM	#17
Christer diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden	John, it is intersting that you mention VDR effects, since that is seldom discussed. All, or almost all, types of resistor have a voltage dependent resistance, some types more than others. I don't think I have ever seen any figures, but presumably the voltage dependency is quite small. There is also a potential secondary VDR effect from heating, since the resistance is also temperature dependent. Both of these effects are likely negligible for most resistors in an amplifier, they will both be swamped by other non-linearities and corrected by feedback. However, there is one resistor that both sees large voltage swings and cannot be corrected by feedback, namely the feedback resistor. So if there is any resistor in amplifier that may cause an audible effect at all, I would suggest this one to be the primary candidate for experiments. If it is not possible to hear a difference between different types of feedback resistors, then I strongly doubt it is possible to hear a difference for any other resistor.

25th October 2005, 11:29 AM	#19
sagarverma diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NEW DELHI	carbon res,in high temp environment like car ,have a temperature noise associated with them but metal films apart from being highly accurate dont have such probs. in general cases,there is not much difference. i prefer mf but until i have no other choice

25th October 2005, 11:30 AM	#20
Upupa Epops diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Prague,Czech Republic	To SY : Is this pic from Bloodwin Pig ?

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