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Old 17th September 2002, 04:11 AM   #111
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Typical Blind Testing : Invalid IMO because of test conditions - ie unfamiliar room, unfamiliar music, unfamiliar system.
In favorable circumstance both myself and flatmate could discern which of 6 interconnects was fitted perfectly reliably.

"But how do you KNOW that his subjective perceptions are in fact due to actual audibility in the first place?"
Because I have been there and done that and gotten similar results, and I understand that Peter has been experimenting for a very long time, has good ears, and does not subscribe to sonic expectations, only sonics results.

"In determining actual audible differences, subjective listening in and of itself has limitations due to psychology."
IMO psychology does not enter into it.

Eric.
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:18 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel


But you also said that "If I see a claim I believe to be invalid". Isn't it dissmissing and not keeping an open mind. Because if you were open minded you wouldn't use a word invalid.
No, it's not dismissing. Just because I believe something to be invalid, doesn't mean I refuse to listen to and consider any arguments to the contrary. If I were dismissing it, I'd just stuff my fingers in my ears and shout "NYAH! NYAH! NYAH! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! NYAH! NYAH! NYAH!"

That's closed minded and dismissive.

I've challenged claims I believed to be invalid before and upon listening to and considering arguments to the contrary, have changed my mind. Usually it's when I do the challenging off the cuff and don't give the issue as much thought as I should have and ended up overlooking something.

However I always give counter arguments full consideration. And I'm never afraid to admit to having made an error. And I've made some doozies in the past. I just pick myself up, laugh at myself, thank the person who corrected me and learn from it.

se
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:21 AM   #113
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Default Re: Re: Getting Real

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eddy



"invalid" seems to be quite a dismissal wouldn't you say?



Or is it somehow different when you're the one doing the dismissing?


This two quotes still prove my point.
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:22 AM   #114
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Default Re: Listening Not Worrying

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
Yeah, I second that Peter.

Also if objective measurements were the only yardstick, hell I'd have to tell half my customers that they own bad measuring junk, and there would be no repairs work for me.
Why do you keep referring to this "objective measurements" stuff? Determining actual audiblity has nothing to do with "objective measurements." Determining actual audibility simply determines audibility to an objective standard of proof is all. An objective standard of proof being one in which subjective bias has been separated out. Has nothing to do with objective measurements.

se
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:24 AM   #115
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Default Re: Re: Re: Getting Real

Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel



This two quotes still prove my point.
I'm sorry, but I've yet to discover just what your point is.

se
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:27 AM   #116
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Default Re: Ill Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
"I can't rightly claim the ball is red because there's a definite possibility the ball is blue."

You can if you take a look (or listen).

Eric.
I think I'd have better luck explaining quantum mechanics to a bunch of five year olds than elementary logic to this bunch.

se
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:32 AM   #117
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting Real

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eddy


I'm sorry, but I've yet to discover just what your point is.

se

My point is as illusive as your argument.

But seriously, you just gave two conflicting answers. Where is your logic?
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:35 AM   #118
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting Real

Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel



My point is as illusive as your argument.

But seriously, you just gave two conflicting answers. Where is your logic?
How are the answers conflicting?

se
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:45 AM   #119
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First you said to me that saying "believing the claim to be invalid" is not dismissing, then to MrFeedback: "invalid seems to be quite a dismissal wouldn't you say?"
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Old 17th September 2002, 04:47 AM   #120
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Default Re: Ill Logic

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
"I can't rightly claim the ball is red because there's a definite possibility the ball is blue."

You can if you take a look (or listen).

Eric.
Yes, but by measuring the system, you cause it's wavefunction to collapse. Remember Schroedinger's Cat?

Speaking of collapse, this thread collapsed somewhere in the middle of page 1...

Regards,

Mark Broker
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