Substitute Lateral Mosfets

joensd · 3rd September 2002, 07:00 PM

hello,
this might be some stupid question so thanks for listening ;-)
i´m about to start some mosfet amplifier project and already look for parts and designs.
the 2sk1058/2sj162 combination is often seen and known to be good and reliable.
these are lateral mosfets but how do i know with which devices i can substitute them.
i was thinking about 2sk1530/2sj201 cause of the lower price.
in anthony holtons design "lateral mosfet amplifier" he notes you can exchange 2sk2221/2sj352 with sk1058/2sj162 but in no case with for example irf240/irf9240 (which would even blow them up).
so what do i have to look for?

TIA
Jens

Christer · 19th September 2002, 09:30 PM

There are two UK companies manufacturing equivalents for
the Hitachi devices, Semelab and Exicon. The Semelab ones
seem to be about the same price as the Hitachi devices, but
it seems Exicon are quite a bit cheaper. Have a look at the
following link. Unless I misunderstood something, there is
no minimum order and no extra cost for shipping etc.

http://www.profusionplc.com/hitachi.htm

Otherwise, Sloane uses the SJ162/SK1058 in all his MOSFET
amplifiers, and he mentions that IRF640/IRF9640 can be used
as a replacement in som of his designs, without furhter details
on which ones, or under what conditions. If memory doesn't
fail me, someone made a claim in another thread recently that
only lateral MOSFETs have a negative temperature coefficient, so
replacement with non-lateral devices without adding some
temp. correction/protection circuitry may not be so wise.

UrSv · 19th September 2002, 10:12 PM

Jens,

If you want you can drop me a mail if you need some 1530/201 pairs.

/UrSv

P.Lacombe · 19th September 2002, 11:28 PM

"only lateral MOSFETs have a negative temperature coefficient, so
replacement with non-lateral devices without adding some
temp. correction/protection circuitry may not be so wise."

Yes. Non-lateral MosFets are more fragile, and exhibit positive temp co at usual current in audio amps. Another problem is higher transconductance, which can cause HF oscillations under some circumstances.

Regards, Pierre Lacombe.

joensd · 20th September 2002, 05:24 AM

thanks for hints
but i´ve overseen a long thread about 2sk1058/2sj162 which talks about substitutes
and i´ve decided to built the crescendo ME version anyway.
it´s an amp with sk1530/2sj201 and those are easy to get here (thanks anyway UrSv)

UrSv · 20th September 2002, 05:36 AM

Sure Jens,

I have 52 pairs I am not using so it was jus a thought. (Maybe this belongs in the Tarding Post forum...)

/UrSv

joensd · 20th September 2002, 06:29 AM

wow. you must have a good shopping budget!
or are you building amps daily?
just if i get inspired to build more mosfet amps:
where do you come from ?
it´s not in your profile
jens

UrSv · 20th September 2002, 07:05 AM

It's in my profile now...I am on both sides of Germany. ;O)

Building far too few amps but starting to pick up speed. The pairs were for a set of A75 but I never got the hang of if they would be OK or not and now I am building a P1.7 and some A30/60s (decision not made - part gathering going on).

/UrSv

Christer · 20th September 2002, 09:37 AM

I think the sk1530/2sj201 are discontinued. At least Hitachi
seem not to produce them anymore. There is nothing wrong
in using them, of course, if still available, but it may be wise
to buy a few extra, just in case.

Since they are discontinued, Hitachi didn't provice any
datasheets. how do they compare to SJ162/SK1058, and
why would they be preferred?

UrSv · 20th September 2002, 09:50 AM

As far as I know they are not Hitachis but Toshibas and I think they are still in production. At least Elfa in Sweden, Schuro in Germany still list them...

Go to http://www.elfa.se/ and enter 2SJ201 in the upper left search window. You will get a list of 2SJ201 and 2SK1530 when selecting the hit. The little blue button with the i on it will give you the respective datasheet.

/UrSv

3rd September 2002, 07:00 PM	#1
joensd diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany	Substitute Lateral Mosfets hello, this might be some stupid question so thanks for listening ;-) i´m about to start some mosfet amplifier project and already look for parts and designs. the 2sk1058/2sj162 combination is often seen and known to be good and reliable. these are lateral mosfets but how do i know with which devices i can substitute them. i was thinking about 2sk1530/2sj201 cause of the lower price. in anthony holtons design "lateral mosfet amplifier" he notes you can exchange 2sk2221/2sj352 with sk1058/2sj162 but in no case with for example irf240/irf9240 (which would even blow them up). so what do i have to look for? TIA Jens

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19th September 2002, 09:30 PM	#2
Christer diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden	There are two UK companies manufacturing equivalents for the Hitachi devices, Semelab and Exicon. The Semelab ones seem to be about the same price as the Hitachi devices, but it seems Exicon are quite a bit cheaper. Have a look at the following link. Unless I misunderstood something, there is no minimum order and no extra cost for shipping etc. http://www.profusionplc.com/hitachi.htm Otherwise, Sloane uses the SJ162/SK1058 in all his MOSFET amplifiers, and he mentions that IRF640/IRF9640 can be used as a replacement in som of his designs, without furhter details on which ones, or under what conditions. If memory doesn't fail me, someone made a claim in another thread recently that only lateral MOSFETs have a negative temperature coefficient, so replacement with non-lateral devices without adding some temp. correction/protection circuitry may not be so wise.

19th September 2002, 10:12 PM	#3
UrSv diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden	Jens, If you want you can drop me a mail if you need some 1530/201 pairs. /UrSv

19th September 2002, 11:28 PM	#4
P.Lacombe diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orleans, France	"only lateral MOSFETs have a negative temperature coefficient, so replacement with non-lateral devices without adding some temp. correction/protection circuitry may not be so wise." Yes. Non-lateral MosFets are more fragile, and exhibit positive temp co at usual current in audio amps. Another problem is higher transconductance, which can cause HF oscillations under some circumstances. Regards, Pierre Lacombe.

20th September 2002, 05:24 AM	#5
joensd diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany	thanks for hints but i´ve overseen a long thread about 2sk1058/2sj162 which talks about substitutes and i´ve decided to built the crescendo ME version anyway. it´s an amp with sk1530/2sj201 and those are easy to get here (thanks anyway UrSv)

20th September 2002, 05:36 AM	#6
UrSv diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden	Sure Jens, I have 52 pairs I am not using so it was jus a thought. (Maybe this belongs in the Tarding Post forum...) /UrSv

20th September 2002, 06:29 AM	#7
joensd diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany	wow. you must have a good shopping budget! or are you building amps daily? just if i get inspired to build more mosfet amps: where do you come from ? it´s not in your profile jens

20th September 2002, 07:05 AM	#8
UrSv diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden	It's in my profile now...I am on both sides of Germany. ;O) Building far too few amps but starting to pick up speed. The pairs were for a set of A75 but I never got the hang of if they would be OK or not and now I am building a P1.7 and some A30/60s (decision not made - part gathering going on). /UrSv

20th September 2002, 09:37 AM	#9
Christer diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden	I think the sk1530/2sj201 are discontinued. At least Hitachi seem not to produce them anymore. There is nothing wrong in using them, of course, if still available, but it may be wise to buy a few extra, just in case. Since they are discontinued, Hitachi didn't provice any datasheets. how do they compare to SJ162/SK1058, and why would they be preferred?

20th September 2002, 09:50 AM	#10
UrSv diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sweden	As far as I know they are not Hitachis but Toshibas and I think they are still in production. At least Elfa in Sweden, Schuro in Germany still list them... Go to http://www.elfa.se/ and enter 2SJ201 in the upper left search window. You will get a list of 2SJ201 and 2SK1530 when selecting the hit. The little blue button with the i on it will give you the respective datasheet. /UrSv