Making your own PCB's

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hey, I know this has been discussed some, I read most of them. Seems like making your own PCB's is not too difficult given the right equipment. My problem is that Im not 100% certain what all those parts are, and Im not sure if its as easy as I think to do.

I noticed that Mouser has three kits that seem more complete than most. The top one for like 160 dollars, or something like that, inlcudes a heater, agitater pump, trays, lamp, etc. The next kit down was like 40 dollars and just had the lamp and a few other things.

I found and saved a sight which had a method for doing the PCB's which invloved dissolving the copper thorugh etching. It seems that normally this method is less precise, but easier to do for someone in there home. He found a way, using a laser printer, to make it more precise. He ironed the laser print onto the board and then etched it. I know that the iron on laser print is new, but it seems that normally this was done with the photo method. I may try this, but given the cost of the photo method, its really not that much more, I may try that. I dont own an actual laser printer, but have easy acces to a photocopier. I assume this will work just as well.

Anyone know of a good sight on the photomethod. Is the iron on laserprint thing the same. Do you use a transparency instead? If not, would that be a plausible method, and in that case, do I still need a laser printer.

Does any permanent marker work, or should I actually buy the etch resistant markers that are sold? Do those conductive pens that let you draw your traces on actually work very well? Would that be an acceptable way of doing really basic prototyping or something? How about sources? Anyone know where you can get better quality boards, or any places that simply has a good selection of the boards and chemicals. Seems like I read about a lot of companies talking about extra thick traces, and wasnt sure if that also meant the copper was thicker on the board, and not just wider. Well if you can help me out, I would appreciate it.
 
If you're not mass producing boards you don't need an expensive kit like that. If you want one or two smallish boards that's way overkill.

Instead of a heater I just heat the solution before use by submerging the jar in really hot water.

You already have an agitator on the end of your arm.

Any home PCB kit will require the process of removing the copper you don't want. This is nearly alyways by etching.

I had some moderate success with the laserprint transfer method. I did have some issues with the toner not sticking in some parts and had to touch up with pens and tape. I used the special paper sold at Digikey and a laser printer.

The 'special' pen I bought is suspiciously identical to a sharpie pen, everything except the label. YMMV.

Boards come in varying thicknesses of copper. I used the thick ones and took a long time to etch. Unless you really need it I'd go with the 'standard' copper thickness and go with wider traces as needed. Thicker ones are also a little harder to find.

All in all I may attempt something like expresspcb next time.
 
Fancy etch tanks really are unnecessary. All I've used for years is just a simple plastic tray, floating in a kitchen sink full of hot water to maintain the temperature. Agitation is easy as the tray is floating, and any spills land in the sink and get immediately diluted to harmlessness.

The laser toner transfer method works really well, especially with 'Press'n'Peel Blue'. I usually use an ordinary domestic iron for the transfer, but have recently bought a cheap laminator for the job, which I'm modifying (slower and hotter).

Key points:
* The copper must be clean! No oxide, or grease or fingerprints.
* Keep the etchant hot ~50C
* Keep the etchant moving
* Try to avoid having large open areas on the pcb artwork. These take much longer to etch than the spaces between tracks, meaning the tracks get undercut while the open space is still dissolving away.
* 15mil track/space works well with toner transfer.

You don't need fancy etch resist pens either. An ordinary permanent spirit marker works just as well ("Sharpie" is one brand I've used successfully - test before committing to a big layout)
 
relder said:

The 'special' pen I bought is suspiciously identical to a sharpie pen, everything except the label. YMMV.

Yeah they are the same.. but can be a little thick. I would buy an indelible fine point marker as well, for small fixes.


I wouldnt buy the kit either. Get some double/single sided copper boards on ebay, they sell for super cheap compared to the local stores.

Then local stores will have the chemicals (ferric chloride, and developer if you go UV) for around 7$ for a medium sized bottle.

Toner transfer method is just fine for making a couple of boards.
 
I have been looking more into this. If all I do is the etching method, I can get the kit which has a heater, containter, and instructions for 35 bucks. Thats not so bad, and if it makes it easier, why not. It will mantain the temperature and keep things agitated for me, and its 35 bucks, cant complain too much.

Thanks non the less. At this point Im gonna start with that and see how it goes. Again, is using a copying machine good enough since I dont own a laser printer. I assume the process is the same, so I could use either, as was mentioned in some right ups.
 
Cheap PCB

If you go to the Eagle (Cad Soft) schematic capture PCB layout tool pages you will find some listings for commercial PCB houses that are far less expensive than you might believe.

Indonesia and a couple of Slavic countries have been used where I work (No I don't want to giveout the names I can't personnaly guarantee you'll get as good a result as we did).

From one vendor, we got 5 of one small PCB in 8 days from e-mailed order to having them in our hands for $75 total including shipping! A second vendor produced 15 larger cards in the same time frame for $110.

Commercial, two sided, solder masked, drilled and with silk screen. having tried the home process (no two the same, no mask, no plating) I say bah! Yes I know its more $$ but not that much and the results are vastly superior. Get an audio buddy to want one too and split the costs.

p.s. The Eagle tool is free for small boards.
 
about the laminator

Hi
For The Laminator I Saw Great Results With it Which Make You Completely Satisfied With Toner Transfer method BUT:
My Problem is i have no exprience or never operated a laminator so i don't know how to modify it to make it work with pcb,i tried to search the net for aan easy detailed way but ididn't find So If Any One Knows ,Please HELP.....
 
Kind of an old thread, but I'm just going to point out that some people report good results using Staples house brand photo paper for the toner transfer technique.

The nicest home results I've had lately were by using an inkjet printer onto transparency stock, stacking two copies to improve opacity, then using photosensitive pc board stock.

For heating the etchant, I fill a bucket with hot water from the tap, then sit the "working" bottle of etchant in it to warm. For single-sided boards, you can carefully float the board on the surface (just be careful to avoid bubbles), and it'll etch fine with no agitation. Make a "handle" with tape on the back of the board to keep your fingers out of the etchant.
 
A toner transfer method with a very high "beginner" success rate and excellent results is described in almost-excruciating detail at:

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm

It's also probably the lowest-cost procedure, and one of the fastest and easiest. Also included is an excellent homemade etchant recipe.

Details of modifying and using laminators, and fuser assemblies from copiers, and of almost everything else related to making PCBs yourself (including how to modify certain inkjet printers to print etchant-resistant ink DIRECTLY onto PCBs), is in the Homebrew_PCBs discussion group's archive, at http://www.yahoogroups.com .

Have fun!

- Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/index.html
 
Hey Tom,

thanks for your informational website! It motivated me to try toner transfer and i got a laminator to make the process more repeatable. On the second try etching i made a board with a PQFP-64 footprint which works fine :D. Had to modify the laminator, but now it works fine.
Note (not to Tom): i will not give details about the modifications because of liability.. if you don't know how to work with such a simple device you probably shouldn't - do you want to set your house on fire? :hot:

Regards
T
 
For simple circuits you could even just draw the tracks with a black marker.

Before I learened how to do photoresist, I used to lay out circuits in eagle... or use PCB layouts from the web, then print it, and glue it to the blank PCB with tape. drill the holes, remove the paper, and play connect the dots with the marker... to remove errors, use a little acetone and an earbud.

and then throw the drawn PCB in the ferric chloride... and its all done...

You can get everything you need for $20, small bottle of ferric chloride... (some people even use pool acid and peroxide... I don't like that though), blank piece of PCB, black marker, and a cheap pyrex bowl...

Also the bubble jet vs lazer topic...

I have no problem, useing my entry level bubblejet... used to have my transparencies printed on lazer at a shop, but there is no significant diffirence in the result.
 
The PCB Makeing method I use pretty much costs nothing....

I simply design my PCB and print it out on a Lazer Printer onto Glossy Photo paper or use a Photo Copier....I then clean off my PCB Material with Steel wool and then use a very Hot iron with a Lot of pressure to transfer the Design to the PCB material ...I then soak the PCB with the Paper in Hot soapy water and gently rub the Paper untill it disolves and all that is left is the Toner on the PCB....

I then use a Sharpie Marker to touch up any areas that aren"t as dark or are Patchy and then I soak it in the Etchant....

For an etchant I find the Best and the easiest and cheapest (But more Dangerous) etchant is a Mixture of one Part Muriotic Acid with 2 Parts 3% Hydrogen Peroxide....

I usually use a Plastic freezer bag to etch in because it can be sealed air tight and can be agitated without fear of splashing, It usually takes about 5 Minutes of agitation to etch even the largest Boards......

After etching I use some mini Brill bits and my Dremmel to drill the Holes.....
If the design uses all discrete parts I will usually make the PCB about 10% bigger than usual so I don"t have any Traces that are too close together and risk any arks...with IC"s I have to use the Proper size .......

Cheers
 
gatedriver said:
Hey Tom,

thanks for your informational website! It motivated me to try toner transfer and i got a laminator to make the process more repeatable. On the second try etching i made a board with a PQFP-64 footprint which works fine :D. Had to modify the laminator, but now it works fine.
Note (not to Tom): i will not give details about the modifications because of liability.. if you don't know how to work with such a simple device you probably shouldn't - do you want to set your house on fire? :hot:

Regards
T

Hi T,

You're welcome. I'm glad to hear that it works so well, for you.

Do you remember, offhand, what the sizes and spacings were, for that? Just curious.

Anyway, I originally created my PCB-making website just so other people wouldn't have to "re-invent the wheel", since it had taken a lot of time and money for me to find the best type of paper to use, which turned out to be crucial for getting very good and repeatable results. Then it sort of "took on a life of its own", especially after it was mentioned on that TV show. Now it gets over 10,000 page-hits a month, and sometimes 20,000. There must be a LOT of people making their own PCBs!!

I used to make all of the circuit boards for my Curve Tracer kits, that way. But nowadays, instead, I email Gerber files to Advanced Circuits. Their website is at http://www.4pcb.com . One of the main reasons that I chose them was because of their on-line "freeDFM" Gerber-checker utility, which is _extremely_ useful, and also includes price quotes along with the design-rule check results and images, from which I can just click to place the order. For large-ish boards, with all of the "bells and whistles", the cost is about $300, almost no matter how many boards you buy, with the three-day turnaround option (the slowest, for the "prototypes" option set). But they have cheaper options. There's no "hole" fee, or hole size restrictions, either. I also like the PDF files with images of all of the layers, that the freeDFM utility automatically emails back to you. (It's essentially a "free on-line Gerber file viewer".) The resolution is very good. And it's so much easier than getting a bitmap from most PCB layout software, or even the free Gerber viewers, that I use the emailed images of my artwork when I create documentation that includes board-layout images.

When I first started making my own PCBs, I actually used MS Paint to draw them! But now I use EASY-PC, from http://www.numberone.com . I really love that software. But I really want to mention that their SUPPORT is astoundingly, astonishingly GREAT!! I once went to their on-line support/discussion forum and asked about a problem I was having with copper pours. I happened to mention that I was very near a deadline and was desperate for a solution or workaround. I was truly flabbergasted when their support person posted a message and said that if I could email the PCB files to them that their programmers would give it the highest priority and try to find an immediate solution, for me! Amazing. I can't remember the last time some company offered to do something like that, for me. I should also mention that when I wanted to upgrade to their latest version, a woman from the U.S. distributor that I used, Adept Science, went WAY above and beyond the call of duty, to expedite everything, and to make it all as painless as possible, for me.

Sorry to have blathered-on about all of that, for so long!

- Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/index.html
 
Minion said:
The PCB Makeing method I use pretty much costs nothing....

I simply design my PCB and print it out on a Lazer Printer onto Glossy Photo paper or use a Photo Copier....I then clean off my PCB Material with Steel wool and then use a very Hot iron with a Lot of pressure to transfer the Design to the PCB material ...I then soak the PCB with the Paper in Hot soapy water and gently rub the Paper untill it disolves and all that is left is the Toner on the PCB....

I then use a Sharpie Marker to touch up any areas that aren"t as dark or are Patchy and then I soak it in the Etchant....

For an etchant I find the Best and the easiest and cheapest (But more Dangerous) etchant is a Mixture of one Part Muriotic Acid with 2 Parts 3% Hydrogen Peroxide....

I usually use a Plastic freezer bag to etch in because it can be sealed air tight and can be agitated without fear of splashing, It usually takes about 5 Minutes of agitation to etch even the largest Boards......

After etching I use some mini Brill bits and my Dremmel to drill the Holes.....
If the design uses all discrete parts I will usually make the PCB about 10% bigger than usual so I don"t have any Traces that are too close together and risk any arks...with IC"s I have to use the Proper size .......

Cheers

Hi Minion,

That all sounds exactly right, and is basically identical to what I have on my pcb-making webpage, at http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/index.html .

One thing I should say is that using steel wool might not be as good as using a nylon scrubbing pad (e.g. "ScotchBrite" type), or artificial steel wool. Real steel wool will embed steel particles in the copper, which will rust, later.

And I basically never have to use a Sharpie marker to make any corrections or touch-ups, any more. I believe that that's because of using a certain type of paper, as detailed on my webpage (It's Staples "photo basic gloss", for inkjet printers, if I recall correctly (Yes, it's used in a laser printer even though it says "inkjet", before anyone asks).

I use the same etchant that you use. It's excellent! And it's always available, and very cheap. I like your ziploc freezer bag idea! I usually just make the etchant in a shallow plastic food-storage tub and, with a latex glove on, use a balled-up paper towel to repeatedly wipe the board surfaces, while it's in the etchant. It's very fast. And it's almost transparent. It might eat holes in things. But at least it doesn't stain them, like Ferric Chloride does. :)

I bought a couple hundred re-pointed .035-inch solid carbide drill bits on ebay, for about $40, a long time ago, and still have about half of them left. I strapped a 30,000-rpm Dremel tool to an old el-cheapo table-top drillpress, which I had modified to have almost zero runout (side-to-side "play"), basically just by attaching a couple of springs. It works really well. I almost never break a bit, unless I hit it with my finger when the drill is off. Those carbide bits are amazing. I've never worn one out.

Have fun!

- Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/index.html
 
I read Tom's webpage about 8 months ago and have made dozens of boards using his method. I use FreePCB as my design program, it's free and fairly usable although there is some learning curve. For small boards I'll do a screen copy and paste into PowerPoint to crop, scale, and print. For larger boards or those with a pour, I'll export to Gerber, import to a free gerber viewer, and then do a screen copy (unless high resoloution is needed, then I'll use more complex methods). An inexpensive ($70) Samsung laser printer and Staples inkjet paper work quite well together. I use Muriatic acid and peroxide to etch, it works well, doesn't stain (much), and is easily available. But use it outside or with good ventalation!!!! It releases small amounts of chlorine gas which stinks and burns respitory tracts. It works really well. I made an active crossover two days ago and am making a power and USB hub tonight.
 
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