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Old 9th September 2004, 09:50 AM   #1
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Default Non-polar Black Gate capacitors

I read recently (on one of these forums I think) that although Black Gate N etc are non-polar, there is nevertheless an "ideal" way of wiring them; i.e. long leg or short leg to earth. I can't remember which way was suggested, and I've done the search thing. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Cheers!
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Old 9th September 2004, 03:04 PM   #2
ainami is offline ainami  United States
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I've been told the short leg should be used as the negative terminal. I believe the polarized black gates also define the short leg as negative.

-Aaron
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Old 9th September 2004, 03:40 PM   #3
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There is no right or wrong way with doing it, just personal preferrence.

Short pin marks the start of the foil, and I prefer to have the outer foil on the ground (at least with positive supply).

Accordingly, I prefer to have the outer foil on signal output.
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Old 9th September 2004, 07:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel

Short pin marks the start of the foil, and I prefer to have the outer foil on the ground (at least with positive supply).

Accordingly, I prefer to have the outer foil on signal output.

Thanks Peter. So the start of the foil is NOT the outer foil?
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Old 9th September 2004, 07:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by falcott



Thanks Peter. So the start of the foil is NOT the outer foil?
That would be my understanding but even if it's not the case, long lead on ground (with pos supply) sounds better to me. I tested it extensively in a DAC.
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Old 14th November 2005, 07:04 PM   #6
Iliya is offline Iliya  Russian Federation
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Over weekend I was experimenting with N type 4.7uF 50V caps.
I was comparing a dielectric absorption of N type to F type in different connections. I have found that N type caps are somewhat directional. With connection of short leg to plus and long leg to minus of a 6V battery DA is much higher, almost double in comparison to the oposite polarity connection. I measured 21-24mV and 11-13mV respectively.
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Old 16th November 2005, 07:10 PM   #7
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There some info (and some seriuos claims)
on their site :
http://www.blackgate.jp/ebg6.htm

Just my 0.01$

(no thread's complete without a noob postin a link ehh )

/ Kenny
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Old 18th November 2005, 06:40 AM   #8
Iliya is offline Iliya  Russian Federation
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Here is the part of that advertisement.

"What is the "Super-E-Caps"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A pair of nonpolarized Black Gate electrolytic capacitors are particularly connected in parallel or in series so that each one of the capacitors cancels the internal magnetic flux generated by the other, thereby completely eliminating internal resonance and decreasing total impedance to absolute zero as the frequency increase."


I have tried parallel (aka Super-E-caps)and serial connections of N type caps. Again I have tested them for dielectric absorption.
Parallel connection have not produce any visible improvements , however serial connection gave reduction in DA about 10-15% .
In addition to that two N type caps connected in serial like
S-L-L-S or L-S-S-L seem to have no direction (polarity) any more.
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Old 18th November 2005, 12:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iliya
Here is the part of that advertisement.

"What is the "Super-E-Caps"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A pair of nonpolarized Black Gate electrolytic capacitors are particularly connected in parallel or in series so that each one of the capacitors cancels the internal magnetic flux generated by the other, thereby completely eliminating internal resonance and decreasing total impedance to absolute zero as the frequency increase."

That is, without any doubt, the most unadulterated piece of pure marketing BS I have seen in a long time. It was written by an idiot.

Teach them a lesson. Don't buy the product.

I_F
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Old 25th November 2005, 09:42 PM   #10
Iliya is offline Iliya  Russian Federation
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Quote:
Teach them a lesson. Don't buy the product.
First of all it's kind of late to do that as Black Gate caps are no longer made. The second I have mesured them (F-type and N-type) and found that their DF is much lower than other brands including famous Nichicon Muse KZ and Panasonic FC. For example F-type 4.7uF 50V have DF of only 1.5-1.6%. That's really low for electrolytic cap. No doubt about it. The DA of Black Gate caps also measured somewhat lower but not that significantly. So the conclusion is that the BG caps are better. Does their quality justifies their price? That's another matter.

The reason I have placed my findings here on the forum is to learn opinions of other members about use of N-type BG caps. Another question I have if the serial connection of polar BG (FK) caps is equal/better/worse than a non-polar caps (N).
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