BlackGate and small cap with

[okina]

It seems to be cheap quation to ask you, but please tell me.
I read at this forum that BlackGate isnt good with bypassing cap,
for example ceramics or polys.
Is it true ? I am really interested.

[okina]

Nobody have tested these combination ?

[Netlist]

Originally posted by okina

I read at this forum that BlackGate isnt good with bypassing cap,
for example ceramics or polys.

Okina
If you read long enough you'll probably find the opposite.
I think it all depends on the application used. If you have some BG's on the shelf, try out some different combinations and let us know.

/Hugo

[okina]

yes, I'm going to try them.
I'll report you the result.
I wonder my ears are good enough for $3 orz

orz <- this letters describe a man tumbling down by many situations.
other versions
�›|�P|_ or _|�P|�›

I love to use these funny arts.
......
.....
....
..
.
just a meaningless tolking orz

[Peter Daniel]

Originally posted by okina
It seems to be cheap quation to ask you, but please tell me.
I read at this forum that BlackGate isnt good with bypassing cap,
for example ceramics or polys.
Is it true ? I am really interested.

It's hard to say. Sometimes it will depend on the circuit and more often on your taste.

For instance in a DAC I'm bypassing 10u BG N caps with 0.01 and 0.15u ceramics and it is improvement over the BG cap by itself. Please notice that in this case I'm not really bypassing BGs but actually add additional bypass to PS pins on the DAC chip.

Just recently I used 0.1 bypass additionally to 4.7u on OPA627 in my preamp, and again I did not notice any degradation, and I'm still not sure about improvement.

I didn't like bypassing BG STD 1000u PS caps in my GainClone amp. That is adding small caps directly at the chip. However, placing 4.7 BG N at the rectifiers board, which is a certain distance from the chip, brings substantial improvement.

[slawney]

A good question.
In Jelmax Technical Report #15, Ishi ends with a table that lists several types of capacitors classified as to whether they may be used with BG or not.

Can be used with BG:
Polypropolene
Polystyrene
Polycarbonate film
Polyester film
Lacquer film
Metallized paper

Cannot be used with BG:
Ordinary electrolytic (wet-type)
Dry-type electrolytic (tantalum, aluminum, semiconductor, and solid tantalum)
Multi-layered ceramic
Oil
Ballium titanate
Vinifluoride

And then there is a footnote saying: "There are other not-desirable capacitors causing distortion, though they do not have such a detrimental influence on sound quality as the electrolytic capacitors. They will be listed on another occasion."

Also, I think at one point Martin Coolmbs (sp?) says in "The Black Gate Story" that all additional ceramic bypass capacitors should be removed once a BG is installed.
I always thought that was an extremely bold statement, so I put it to the test. On some digital gear I have (Wadia, Z-Systems), the designers use additional PS bypassing to many of the chips with the same combination of stacked ceramic (.22uF and .01uf). I decided to replace all of the .22uF ceramics with .22uF/50V PK Compact and remove all of the .01uF ceramics. Guess what? The component did not properly function at all, even when I replaced the .22uF PKs with the superior Super-E configuration of 2 x .10 NX-HiQ which is supposed to go "from DC to Gigahertz" with no resonance, low E.S.R. and low distortion. I had to refit the ceramics in order to get the component to work.
As far as adding additional bypass caps to BG, I think that can only be answered case-by-case. Some really very beneficial PSU bypassing schemes for CS8412 that Peter mentions, for instance, really need ceramic chip caps mounted directly on the Va and Vd pins, and I do perceive those ceramics as reducing distortion and not adding distorion in combination with BG NX HiQ.
Other times, the addition of additional bypassing does seem to damage the BG effect.
I would experiment and let your ears tell.

[gingertube]

An old thread BUT some may still be interested.

My reference amp - AKSA 55 Nivarna Plus has a 100uF/50V Blackgate Standard Electrolytic on the front end diff amp supply.

Over a period of 3 to 4 months I tried Blackgate N, 2 off Blackgate N "Super E" connected etc also some Elna Cerafine, ?? Goldtunes plus various others. I had to wait settling in time on each mod.

Eventually settled on a 100uF/50V Blackgate Standard with a 1 uF/50V PPS (polyphyenlene sulphide) across it. This slightly improved top end. This best suited MY musical taste. PPS for those not familiar with them are the dielectric which replaced polycarbonate.