Pace Soldering Station

[Devil_H@ck]

I might be able to buy a Pace MBT250 soldering station, but it would cost me quite a lot, about $500 I'm guessing. Still, that's a lot less than the price you'd pay for it in a store. What can I say, that soldering station looks like one of the best there is (and I'm sure it is), it looks like something fantastic. I read a lot of reactions here on the forums and a lot of people seem to find a temperature controlled iron invaluable. I'm also starting with SMD stuff so this would be a great help in soldering those tiny parts, since it's got a vacuum pump and an air supply connection.

However, if I'd buy it for such a high price (compared to my current soldering iron, which is a very simple non-temperature regulated Weller model), I'd like to be sure that this will last for at least 20 years. I'm a student and I can't afford to spend amounts like this all the time. I'm going to start studying electronics at university next month and while I know that I won't have to do a lot of soldering for school, I can be sure that somewhere in the future this thing will have it's use (next to using it for my hobby).

So, now, the question (finally ): how long will this thing last? How long would a tip last if I, let's say, solder for 6 hours a week (which probably won't even be the case)? I guess years, but I'd like to be sure.

Do you guys think this is a good investment to make or should I pass it on? The soldering station is used, but in very good condition, some of the (de)soldering irons that you get when you buy it new aren't even used. It also comes with quite a lot of tips, both used & unused. I guess it would cost about $2000-3000 new (how's that for an acurate guess ). So, is this a good deal?

 

[Devil_H@ck]

It's pretty stupid I have to add a reply, but I was to late to edit my message .

Anyway, I need to decide quite quickly, so any thoughts/opinions are appreciated.

 

[The Peasant]

I have used one of these units for the last 10+ years at work and have had no problems with the main unit in that time, it still works basically as new. This unit is used on average 5 days a week for a couple of hours, for new soldering and repairs. The most annoying problem with it is the reliability of the heater elements in the desoldering handpiece, we have gone through 5 or 6 of these. However, that's the tool that gets the most use, and I've experienced similar problems with a Weller unit as well. Certainly for your level of use I would expect this unit to last virtually forever. You may find Pace irons and accessories to be expensive though, and there are other types that are a lot cheaper that would probably work just as well for you, although with less features and quality.

Take care,
Doug

 

[Devil_H@ck]

I like the part that it will last forever. I don't think desoldering will be the main thing I'll do with this. It will probably be SMD soldering (I haven't even finished a project with SMD, but already I like it more than though hole). And since you say that in 10+ years you've needed to buy 5 heater elements and I will use the desoldering iron a lot less, I guess it isn't that bad. The thing I like so much about this station is that it allows for more than 1 iron and has both vacuum & air air supply. I know there are others, but I don't have the chance to buy them at a lower price right now.

I'm pretty sure I won't stop with this hobby, the more I make electronics stuff or read about it the more I like it. So, is spending $500 on this justifiable or not?

 

[1audio]

Pace irons are good quality but that is a lot of $$$. I use Metcals almost exclusivly now and have had no bad experiences with them (I have 4). The tips last forever and since the heating element is integral to the tip burnout doesn't happen.

I get Metcals on eBay and have never had to pay more than $150 for one, which is why the $500 seems high. It may be harder to get them in Europe.

The instant change tips allows switching to the appropriate tip with no down-time when going from through-hole to smt.

Pace is good for solder removing systems and BGA rework stuff.
-Demian

 

[Devil_H@ck]

I just found a Belgian store and they are selling a Pace MBT250 used one for $1850 (although it's only used during demonstrations). So, it looks like $500 isn't even that much for such a unit.

I've searced for Metcals on eBay too, but it looks like there aren't any all-in-one units. For example, the MX-500 looks great, but it doesn't look like it can blow air. For vacuum it needs shop air, something I obviously don't have. Meaning, that if I wanted to have a desoldering iron I'd need to buy the SP440 self-contained desoldering system. Combine this with shipping costs and I think I'd reach the $500 mark soon. Shipping heavy stuff from the USA to Belgium is quite expensive, yesterday I asked about shipping of a Tektronix scope that was on auction for $10 on eBay, the shipping would cost me $190 ! The Pace on the other hand has got everything included, no shop air needed, both vacuum & air capabilities, etc.

I know it's a lot of money, that's why I'm still a bit in doubt. But then again, I guess that if I do buy it, I won't have to buy anything new (except for tips, etc of course) for at least 15 years (and probably a lot more than that)... Decisions, decisions ...

 

[Peter Daniel]

You might try to contact this forum member, as he seems to offer good qulity soldering equipment at very reasonable prices:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19506&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23956

 

[Devil_H@ck]

Thanks, I mailed him.

In the meanwhile, the price has risen to $635 . I guess that's too much. Still, I've spend the last 2 hours browsing the sites of Hakko, Metcal and Pace (not Weller, since they seem to make not so good quality irons these days and if I spend money, I better spend it good) and the Pace MBT-250 seems to be the only station that can solder/desolder both THT & SMD and has both hot air & vacuum. The Hakko 850 doesn't seem to allow THT soldering. The Metcal MX-500DS has vacuum but you need shop air for it and it hasn't got hot air.

I guess I'll wait for another MBT-250 auction then... (well the MBT-201 is fine too of course, but the digital MBT-250 is even nicer ).

* The price has now risen to $650 .

 

[Devil_H@ck]

Well, the auction's finished. I hope the guy who got it has fun with it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3834726471
Final price: €525 ($650) + €20 ($25) shipping (to me in case I got it that is) = €550 ($675)

The bids do look pretty fishy though, take a look: http://offer.ebay.com/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=3834726471
The same guys keep bidding higher and higher even though they are winning, what the hell is up with that? Don't they understand that the only thing they're doing is making the final price higher? Djeez... Stupid people... (That enough ranting for today .)

* I just took a look at the Weller stations and the WRS3000 is the same as the Pace MBT-250 (well, except that the Pace one will most probably be better quality). So, if anyone's got any experience with it, please tell me .

 

[1audio]

You are a candidate for esnipe (www.esnipe.com) the poker face for ebay. Bids a few seconds before the auction closes and hides your interest to keep the prices low. Many people use it. For me it allows me to change my mind about bidding up to 5 min. before the auction closes.

You said you are more interested in SMT than through hole. And a hand-held solder sucker works great. I can remove a 40 pin IC or a big connector faster with one than with the fancy systems. I will use them on a delicate PCB but for general work its usually not worth the effort. For SMT you don't need the pump either, just controlled heat.

Put money into the best hand tools you can find, really good cutters are more important to me than the soldering iron.

Demian

 

[Devil_H@ck]

You are a candidate for esnipe (www.esnipe.com) the poker face for ebay. Bids a few seconds before the auction closes and hides your interest to keep the prices low. Many people use it. For me it allows me to change my mind about bidding up to 5 min. before the auction closes.

You said you are more interested in SMT than through hole. And a hand-held solder sucker works great. I can remove a 40 pin IC or a big connector faster with one than with the fancy systems. I will use them on a delicate PCB but for general work its usually not worth the effort. For SMT you don't need the pump either, just controlled heat.

Put money into the best hand tools you can find, really good cutters are more important to me than the soldering iron.

Demian

I use Auction Sentry (http://www.auctionsentry.com) . The drawback to it is that you have to leave your PC on, but the advantage of it is that you don't have to sent your UN & pass to some other site. But damn those people who bid €125 more than they should, what's wrong with them? C'mon, who the hell would do such a thing? It has really got totally, absolute no use at all. Sure, other people will bid if they bid low, but since they're willing to pay more they might as well bid their maximum amount later. And if no one else bids they have to spend less. (Yes, I'm a bit upset about the fact that the price went so high, I was willing to spend €400 on it, shigh .)

I tried removing a 40 pin TSSOP, but I'm afraid I might have fried it. Then again, the only things I used are a simple Weller soldering iron with a standard tip and some tweezers.

What I'd really like to try is hot air soldering. I think it must be very easy and convenient to solder SMD ICs that way. Has anyone tried it?

I guess I'll just keep an eye out on eBay for some of the more advanced soldering stations. To bad I can't order one from America, since they won't work on 230V AC.

 

[paddy]

pace

Even the smallest pace handset feels like a log compared to a metcal. Buy a used metcal and spend your change on a few decent tips. I worked in repair for years and having discovered metcal I could never go back to a pace handset although I do miss their 'miniwave' tips sometimes.

I just repaired the cable on my handset after about 5000 hours of use and abuse I expect the base unit to keep going for another 5 years.

 

[Devil_H@ck]

Are they easy to solder the really tiny SMD stuff with? Like 0603 resistors? 'Cause I just bought 7250 of those . What type do you recommend? I'd like to be able to do as much as possible with it. It definately has to be able to solder both SMD & THT.

 

[Devil_H@ck]

The MX-500 with Talon tips looks pretty nice. Small too. If I'd go for a Metcal, the choice is between these 3 solder stations:
- MX-500
- PS-800
- SP-200

There really isn't much info on the Metcal site, I don't even know what difference there is between the PS-800 and the SP-200. Sure the former uses a newer technology, but besides that? They say that the PS-800 can handle lead-free soldering, but I guess the others can too. There's virtually no info on the SP-200.

So, has anyone got any clue on which would be the best choice? If I were to chose right now, I'd pick the MX-500, because the Talon tips look really handy, but maybe someone thinks different about this?

 

[paddy]

0603 is no problem we used to do 0402 resisotrs and caps by the thousand on small CCD based cameras.

The MX is the only one to go for the tip cartridges on the other models are similar in diameter to the pace.

With the MX-500 you can change tip and be up to temperature in a 20 seconds .. it saves an age of time and you're never making do with the wrong tip. Plug in a large chisel tip and you can desolder heatsinks and connectors, change tip and 30 seconds later you're working on fine pitch quads and 0402's

There are older irons that use the same tip cartridges and handset that can be had for cheap, the old stss systems are still in use in most electronics facilites here. The only advantage of the MX-500 is the extra port and it does heat the tips a bit faster than my stss station.

Regarding the talon - great for taking off large multiples of large resistors and caps - it's quite a cunbersome thing and very often you'll find that where theres sockets, connectors, large electrolytics etc. you'll have to revert to a different tool anyway.

You'd be better off spending your money on some decent tips than a talon.

 

[paddy]

0603 is no problem we used to do 0402 resisotrs and caps by the thousand on small CCD based cameras.

The MX is the only one to go for the tip cartridges on the other models are similar in diameter to the pace.

With the MX-500 you can change tip and be up to temperature in a 20 seconds .. it saves an age of time and you're never making do with the wrong tip. Plug in a large chisel tip and you can desolder heatsinks and connectors, change tip and 30 seconds later you're working on fine pitch quads and 0402's

There are older irons that use the same tip cartridges and handset that can be had for cheap, the old stss systems are still in use in most electronics facilites here. The only advantage of the MX-500 is the extra port and it does heat the tips a bit faster than my stss station.

Regarding the talon - great for taking off large multiples of large resistors and caps - it's quite a cunbersome thing and very often you'll find that where theres sockets, connectors, large electrolytics etc. you'll have to revert to a different tool anyway.

You'd be better off spending your money on some decent tips than a talon.

The 110/220 models work fine at 50Hz (or so I'm told by metcal support) so if you get an american model you can run it on a stepdown transformer.

 

[Devil_H@ck]

0603 is no problem we used to do 0402 resisotrs and caps by the thousand on small CCD based cameras.

The MX is the only one to go for the tip cartridges on the other models are similar in diameter to the pace.

With the MX-500 you can change tip and be up to temperature in a 20 seconds .. it saves an age of time and you're never making do with the wrong tip. Plug in a large chisel tip and you can desolder heatsinks and connectors, change tip and 30 seconds later you're working on fine pitch quads and 0402's

There are older irons that use the same tip cartridges and handset that can be had for cheap, the old stss systems are still in use in most electronics facilites here. The only advantage of the MX-500 is the extra port and it does heat the tips a bit faster than my stss station.

Regarding the talon - great for taking off large multiples of large resistors and caps - it's quite a cunbersome thing and very often you'll find that where theres sockets, connectors, large electrolytics etc. you'll have to revert to a different tool anyway.

You'd be better off spending your money on some decent tips than a talon.

The 110/220 models work fine at 50Hz (or so I'm told by metcal support) so if you get an american model you can run it on a stepdown transformer.

Great to hear that even 0402 isn't a problem.

I just searched on eBay for stepdown transformers and despite what I thought those things are pretty small. The better for me, now I can be sure that I'll be able to use American solder stations too .

 

[paddy]

You can get stepdown transformers cheap on almost any ads paper .. the kind that are used for power tools like kango hammers. They are big and ugly but safe and high power so you can run a multitude of gear off them.

The STSS I have here requires 1A at 230V you'll probably need a 250 - 300VA transformer to be safe. I can't remember what the MX-500 takes probably something similar.