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-   -   Fake ELNA capacitors ? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/33704-fake-elna-capacitors.html)

ashok 8th May 2004 10:37 AM

Fake ELNA capacitors ?
 
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Would anybody know if the black capacitor (10,000uF 71V ) capacitor is a fake ? The plastic is not even and the top cover is made of VERY thin plastic.
Can the 71V unit be smaller than the 56V type?
The Blue one looks 'neat' and I am inclined to think it is an original ( 10,000uF 56V).
Thanks,
Ashok.

Jay 8th May 2004 04:09 PM

May be both are fake
 
I have seen some similar with the black one, and they are fake. The blue one is quite similar with starget in color, but not in build quality.

IMHO, most fake components are very easy to determine from the build quality (the print), that is if you have seen the original one.

I've never found a fake component that is sold for original component's price. Original ELNA are expensive, especially when it is claimed for audio. This label itself ("For Audio") looks suspicious to me. It just seems not proffessional (Elna has starget, silmic, cerafine, etc, and Rubicon Black Gate has N, NX, Muse, etc, all with their own purpose in audio implementation).

I believe you got the blue one for less than half a Starget price. I have used cheap "branded" capacitors, and they sound horrible. Cheap but original Nippon-Chemicon is much better. I used Nippon-Chemicon (damn, I hope I'm not mistaken with the brand) for my power supplies. A lot cheaper than the Cerafine, but almost equal in quality (for power supply).

I said, for power supply caps, just go for the original one :D

Peter Daniel 8th May 2004 04:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
"For Audio" grading is quite popular with Japanese components and those caps here are original (taken out from equipment).

What seems strange for your caps is voltage rating and that makes them seemed to be rather fake.

annex666 9th May 2004 08:31 AM

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...I came across a thread a while ago on DiyAudio and found this picture:

annex666 9th May 2004 08:36 AM

I don't know how common this is (one would hope this is an isolated case), but it just goes to show - take nothing for granted!

You can test cap. values with even cheap multimeters these days and checking manufacturers websites for pictures is, of course, always an option. Granted it shouldn't be the case that this should be necessary, but if you're ordering any quantity of large name-brand caps. it could cost quite a lot and testing a single unit may be prudent.

Also if you find a fraudulent retailer I'm sure the manufacturer of the original unit would appreciate being informed.


Hope this helps?

Borc 9th May 2004 11:14 AM

I found Elna datasheet for those caps. There is no 10000uF value for 71WV. But the datasheet may be old.

http://borc.sloweb.net/Elna%20LPO.pdf

Vigier 9th May 2004 01:10 PM

71V working voltage is not an unusual value, just like 56V an 80V (usually there's only 50V/63V/100V

The casing looks like the LP5-series (about a month or 2 I bought a box (100) of the LP5 10.000F/63V capacitors.
They have a slightly different text, but same case-color, and printing type.
63V capacitors can work at 71V's. Maybe they used a "cheap" LP5 capacitor and just printed something else on it (71V and the text "for audio" just makes it a little more expensive).

Grtz, Joris

ashok 9th May 2004 02:30 PM

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Hi Joris,
I think Borc and I were trying to point out that Elna does not have a 10,000uF/71V capacitor in their range. Not even in their latest catalogue on the Web. No argument about other makes having 71V and 80 V in their range , Elna also but at lower capacitance values.

Does the Elna you bought look like the one in the picture?
Cheers,
Ashok.

kpee 9th May 2004 05:37 PM

Fake Elna Elcos
 
Having worked for Rubycon for 10 years I have seen very many large Elcos with unusual voltages. Many Japanese manufacturers (JVC, Pioneer etc) ask for non-standard voltages to be supplied so 71V is not unusual. We have supplied panasonic with 5600mfd 72V. It is very difficult to identify "fake" capacitors. In the end the only way of detecting them is to measure cap, esr, Tan delta and leakage and compare with known good devices. If that does not confirm the "fake" cut the unit open. A good clue is how big is the wound unit they are usually designed to be a reasonably tight fit in the can.

Vigier 9th May 2004 07:32 PM

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Hi Ashok,

It looks pretty much like your picture but some small differences:
The text from top to bottom says (yeah, it's a REALLY nbad picture I made)

ELNA
LP 5
63 V
10000F(M)
THAILAND
CE 85C
(this text is printed 3 times on it)

The side where the lips are, is made of rubber I think.

Grtz, Joris


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