I think that they know and don't give a $hit. It's a bottom line money decision. They can boost their earnings by shipping out $hit and get their bonuses and options. Next quarter the compatition will do the same and the customers will have to settle for $hit product A or $hit product B.
Most of the big box consumers don't know the difference and they are the bulk of the sales.
Most of the big box consumers don't know the difference and they are the bulk of the sales.
Metcal and quality product in general
As I pointed out elsewhere Metcals are a dream to use. I have several now, most from eBay. I could not justify a new one.
I have used Weller and Ungar over the years and watched as they both degraded their quality. They are now the same company. And this is all driven by the consumer.
The consumer today does not want to pay for the quality he expects. . .and has no way to judge the quality he buys. The purcase decision is made on apperances and reputation. So to be a success in the mass market you need a good name (and with the health of our economy those are cheap) and good packaging and presentation. The quality issue at a mass merchandizer is more one of return rate than any real quality evaluation or measure. How many Wallmart consumers return TV's because the colors are off?
Back to quality soldering irons, Weller has been serving a retail market for the last 10 years (manufacturing in large scale went overseas) so they have been chasing the price curve. Metcal has a solid market in the medical and aerospace industries (If you were assembling pacemakers would you even think about cutting corners?) As such they have customer that will pay for the technology. And those customers are either upgrading or crashing and the excess inventory comes on the market.
Hakko is serving the Asian manufacturing market so they have more pressure to make quality products.
As I pointed out elsewhere Metcals are a dream to use. I have several now, most from eBay. I could not justify a new one.
I have used Weller and Ungar over the years and watched as they both degraded their quality. They are now the same company. And this is all driven by the consumer.
The consumer today does not want to pay for the quality he expects. . .and has no way to judge the quality he buys. The purcase decision is made on apperances and reputation. So to be a success in the mass market you need a good name (and with the health of our economy those are cheap) and good packaging and presentation. The quality issue at a mass merchandizer is more one of return rate than any real quality evaluation or measure. How many Wallmart consumers return TV's because the colors are off?
Back to quality soldering irons, Weller has been serving a retail market for the last 10 years (manufacturing in large scale went overseas) so they have been chasing the price curve. Metcal has a solid market in the medical and aerospace industries (If you were assembling pacemakers would you even think about cutting corners?) As such they have customer that will pay for the technology. And those customers are either upgrading or crashing and the excess inventory comes on the market.
Hakko is serving the Asian manufacturing market so they have more pressure to make quality products.
Has anyone seen the Weller WHS40D Digital Solder Station ??
I think it may be newish? not sure if its any good ?
http://www.brewstersbatteries.co.uk/catalog/images/weller_whs40d.gif
I think it may be newish? not sure if its any good ?
http://www.brewstersbatteries.co.uk/catalog/images/weller_whs40d.gif
I'd like to introduce another name into the mix. Pace makes some very good industrial soldering/rework stations and their line seems to cover all the features and accessories you can get from a Hakko station. I personally use a station that's about 10 years old that I got really cheap from a good friend of mine who owned a pager sales/repair business. He had 8 in his store, which were left on continuously for 8+ hours every day, and the tips lasted for months if they were properly maintained (except the very fine needle tips, but they lasted quite a while also, unless you dropped them). Mine is still going strong, and has a very accurate temperature control, and heats up to any temperature up to ~950°F (510°C) within 45 seconds, and I have never had the tip cool off no matter what I tried to solder. Their new products are supposedly even better. The only downsides are that their tips are very expensive, and you can only buy them from a handful of distributors in packs of 5 (except for the really expensive tips for large SMT ICs), which tend to cost over $30, depending on the tip you want. I find this annoying because I can't buy a "variety pack" of 5 tips, and if I only want one or two, I still have to buy 5. The plus side, I suppose, is that 5 tips would last for years for most hobbyists. I just thought I'd throw in a plug for Pace to let you know that Hakko and Metcal aren't the only options for high-quality stations.
"Most professionals swear by the Metcal."
"At somewhere between a grand or or two I wonder why"
Our company has used Hakko for most of the 15 years I've been here, but we are upgrading in both Manufacturing and Engineering to Metcals. Between my two main benches, I have a Hakko 928 (dual iron), Hakko 936, and two Metcals.
One reason Metcal irons are popular in industry is that there is no temperature to adjust (or mis-adjust, as the case may be). Delicate traces and pads can be destroyed by too hot of an iron. The tip you install in a Metcal determines the temperature. Also, there is no need to calibrate the iron. For ISO 9000, calibration of irons in a headache. The more irons, the bigger the headache.
Having used them side-by-side, I can truthfully say that a Hakko can't hold a candle to a Metcal, when you really need heat. The project I'm working on now is a 10 layer PWB, with 2 oz. Cu top and bottom, 1 oz Cu internal layers, and all with no thermal webbing anywhere. It's virtually impossible to do anything with the Hakko, no matter what tip you use or how high you crank it.
That being said, for the average DIY'er, the Hakko is probably the way to go. Good selection of tips, reasonably priced. If you can find a Metcal cheap, I would certainly go for it.
Cheers,
bg
"At somewhere between a grand or or two I wonder why"
Our company has used Hakko for most of the 15 years I've been here, but we are upgrading in both Manufacturing and Engineering to Metcals. Between my two main benches, I have a Hakko 928 (dual iron), Hakko 936, and two Metcals.
One reason Metcal irons are popular in industry is that there is no temperature to adjust (or mis-adjust, as the case may be). Delicate traces and pads can be destroyed by too hot of an iron. The tip you install in a Metcal determines the temperature. Also, there is no need to calibrate the iron. For ISO 9000, calibration of irons in a headache. The more irons, the bigger the headache.
Having used them side-by-side, I can truthfully say that a Hakko can't hold a candle to a Metcal, when you really need heat. The project I'm working on now is a 10 layer PWB, with 2 oz. Cu top and bottom, 1 oz Cu internal layers, and all with no thermal webbing anywhere. It's virtually impossible to do anything with the Hakko, no matter what tip you use or how high you crank it.
That being said, for the average DIY'er, the Hakko is probably the way to go. Good selection of tips, reasonably priced. If you can find a Metcal cheap, I would certainly go for it.
Cheers,
bg
Weller vs Hakko
It's funny that you guys talk so vehemently about Weller.
I couldn't resist to add my two cents. I have not but bad
experiences with Weller, unfortunatly.
And here I am with two broken Weller solder stations not
to repair because one of them was repaired (?) and it didn't
last six months, it's broken again...
I used to work for a big company (Sony) and the solder stations
were exclusively Wellers whereas the desoldering ones were
Hakko. Every four to six months or so the Wellers were to be
replaced or repaired, the Hakkos would be on and on for years
with any problem. Does this say something about the Weller
quality?
And my two Wellers will be in my attic until I decide to throw
them off, it doesn't pay to pay at least $120.00 for the
repair where I can buy a decent Tenma for less than $60.00.
It's funny that you guys talk so vehemently about Weller.
I couldn't resist to add my two cents. I have not but bad
experiences with Weller, unfortunatly.
And here I am with two broken Weller solder stations not
to repair because one of them was repaired (?) and it didn't
last six months, it's broken again...
I used to work for a big company (Sony) and the solder stations
were exclusively Wellers whereas the desoldering ones were
Hakko. Every four to six months or so the Wellers were to be
replaced or repaired, the Hakkos would be on and on for years
with any problem. Does this say something about the Weller
quality?
And my two Wellers will be in my attic until I decide to throw
them off, it doesn't pay to pay at least $120.00 for the
repair where I can buy a decent Tenma for less than $60.00.
Hello,Hakko knockoff
Can sombody comment on this Hakko 936 clone? http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7307
Can sombody comment on this Hakko 936 clone? http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7307
These look like a great deal. I would like to know more about calibration of the tip temperature. But that's not critical if you aren't making super sensitive stuff. Its cheap enough that you could just dump it if something goes wrong. The Metcal tips are more expensive that this whole set.
-Demian
-Demian
This is an interesting topic. I have a second Hakko 926 which I bought in Asia in 1987. The original owner bought it band new in 1984. This version was not introduced to US market at that moment. The face plate is plastic and not metal. Recently, the unit behaved on and off stage and it is caused by electrolytic capacitors. After replaced all of them, the unit works faultlessly again. It serves two owner since 1984 and now is 2009. What you are thinking the quality? Honestly today all products quality gone down even Mercedes Benz has many problems and body rust within 8 years. I rather choose second hand old products and refurbish by myself.
Unit I spent money on these 22 years
1. Upgrade to metal faceplate. (My friend melt the plastic face plate)
2. Heat coil cracked (I turn on the iron without put the tip on at teenager era)
3. cream housing fade, spayed white color
4. Electrolytic capacitors
Total cost:
1. $10 canadian
2. $8 on e-bay
3. $4.5 spay can at Wal-mart
4. $2 all electrolytic capacitors
I spent total $24.5 on this iron in 22 years
I won't recommend the cone one since the heat coil quality can not be garranty. I will spend more money for a good quality product and use it forever.
Unit I spent money on these 22 years
1. Upgrade to metal faceplate. (My friend melt the plastic face plate)
2. Heat coil cracked (I turn on the iron without put the tip on at teenager era)
3. cream housing fade, spayed white color
4. Electrolytic capacitors
Total cost:
1. $10 canadian
2. $8 on e-bay
3. $4.5 spay can at Wal-mart
4. $2 all electrolytic capacitors
I spent total $24.5 on this iron in 22 years
I won't recommend the cone one since the heat coil quality can not be garranty. I will spend more money for a good quality product and use it forever.
I'vre got a couple of hakkos and like them quite a bit.
My main Hakko doe s have a slight problem s from time to time
and I don't know what is wrong with it. It is the white 936,
it has problems at times heating up the meat!
The black 936 hadn't developed this problems yet.
Whitie might have a creacked ceremac element that doesn't
sow it face all the time so who knows.
Well on the otherhand and these are newer irsont ai'm talking about there were quite the bummer. One iron melted in half on the bench.
My 3000 hi end solderation station is inikeyh as all get up and
the solder gets jammed in the tube, etc. It is very maintenance intensive which makes it almost not worth it to use on a piaece of gear.
King of like a cuisinarte thing, you can use all the blades preppering your food, but it take longer to prep, then hand slicking etc, then yoiu've still gove the final clean up the the thing also, which takes
more time cleaining than just a knie and cutting board.
My main Hakko doe s have a slight problem s from time to time
and I don't know what is wrong with it. It is the white 936,
it has problems at times heating up the meat!
The black 936 hadn't developed this problems yet.
Whitie might have a creacked ceremac element that doesn't
sow it face all the time so who knows.
Well on the otherhand and these are newer irsont ai'm talking about there were quite the bummer. One iron melted in half on the bench.
My 3000 hi end solderation station is inikeyh as all get up and
the solder gets jammed in the tube, etc. It is very maintenance intensive which makes it almost not worth it to use on a piaece of gear.
King of like a cuisinarte thing, you can use all the blades preppering your food, but it take longer to prep, then hand slicking etc, then yoiu've still gove the final clean up the the thing also, which takes
more time cleaining than just a knie and cutting board.
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