I didn‘t want to fuel the argument.
It’s just that overhere in switzerland, things are so cozy that I can’t imagine a solder-joint _in/for audio gear_ being shaken or vibrated so much that it would break.
But I realize this is a discussion about principles...
Swiss may be cozy, but there are situations where things has to work, despite harsh outside conditions. Thats when TFE isolation comes into play. And other joint methods beside soldering. It would be interesting to audition gear without any bad solder joint but wrapped instead. Would be sound much better.
In the good old days of point-to-point wiring there was the possibility of the best of both worlds. You hooked a wire through a terminal and squeezed it tight with pliers (a form of crimping), and then soldered on top of that. The solder gave the very important advantage of providing a gas-tight seal against moisture, oxygen, atmospheric pollutants and corrosion. And the solder reduced the remaining resistance of the connection by providing a parallel conductance around the crimp.
I think that’s mostly true. If your speaker enclosure vibrates so violently that it could break wires then you need a sturdier speaker enclosure, for the sake of cleaner sound if not for cable health. Probably the bigger risk for home audio uses’ cables is corrosion at the connection points rather than mechanical fatigue.
The exception is with professional sound work, where cables are exposed to frequent movement and connection/disconnection cycles. Cables are walked on, run over by equipment, and exposed to PA speaker cabinets that are pushing out extremely high SPLs. That’s no place for solid-core, by the way.
PCB's make for flat, one dimensional sound. Sounds the same as the PCB looks like. My tube amps are 100% PCB free. All turret lug boards with wrapped wires that are soldered at last to fix the joints. Some threaded connections, too. But never any PCB. All good amps were PCB free, and I don't mean the PCB oils but the printed circuit boards.
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Also round wire imparts roundness to sound, for flat and edgy sound you need to use copper ribbon.
Lead in solder gives you heavy sound, I much prefer aluminum wire solder.
Melts at 660C and requires fluoride flux but with the proper Laser soldering gun it´s not a big deal.
And don´t start me on cloth covered wire.
Seen it happen many times, mostly in amplifiers that were toured. Never underestimate what that does to equipment.
Another situation I've seen broken solder joints (and sheared component leads) is in loudspeaker crossovers after they've been dropped. Of course, there is a very decent chance that if the drop was bad enough to shear component leads, it also shifted the magnets on the drivers, so at that point it doesn't really matter.
I see PTFE insulated stranded wire used in a lot of really high-end equipment designed for very high reliability. For example, a lot of the big Sorensen or custom-built power supplies (think research labs) have PTFE insulated wire for the control wiring.
Quite honestly, for most of us the best way to stop it from breaking at the connections is to make sure those connections can't move.
Crimp connections are fine if they are done properly. I see a lot of crimps that are not done properly, either because of bad tools, bad technique, or both. When they aren't done properly, their reliability is terrible. Pliers != crimpers.
Also round wire imparts roundness to sound, for flat and edgy sound you need to use copper ribbon.
Lead in solder gives you heavy sound, I much prefer aluminum wire solder.
Melts at 660C and requires fluoride flux but with the proper Laser soldering gun it´s not a big deal.
And don´t start me on cloth covered wire.
If you don't believe my arguments, which are based on audible observations, you should study harder.
But I'm sure you are such an avid user of PCB based amps. Those always deny arguments against PCB. Such is life. Its all about ego.
Even though a pinch of sarcasm can be smile-inducing, I think these argument about better-sounding techniques *based on believing* things are rather boring or, worse, annoying.
I unfortunately never had the occasion to compare sound qualities of parts, or techniques (p2p–pcb, solder–crimp, various caps etc)
I‘d have to build several models of an identical schematic (to exclude sound-differences from different gear), with the various differences to be incorporated... always preferred to build something else instead.
I unfortunately never had the occasion to compare sound qualities of parts, or techniques (p2p–pcb, solder–crimp, various caps etc)
I‘d have to build several models of an identical schematic (to exclude sound-differences from different gear), with the various differences to be incorporated... always preferred to build something else instead.
Juan Fahey is a well respected expert who feels free to call nonsense by name wherever he meets that. Certainly you do not like such feedback - its all about ego
Also round wire imparts roundness to sound, for flat and edgy sound you need to use copper ribbon.
Lead in solder gives you heavy sound, I much prefer aluminum wire solder.
Melts at 660C and requires fluoride flux but with the proper Laser soldering gun it´s not a big deal.
And don´t start me on cloth covered wire.
And indeed, LPs sound kind of pointy, given the intrusion of a stylus, and CDs sound kind of shimmery, with all of that reflection going on.
In other words, I believe that quality of circuit design and component quality dwarf what you may use for wire or connections, unless you do something really boneheaded.
I hate to say it, but the music you are listening to was probably recorded through a mixing console with -gasp- a whole lot of PCBs. If it was after 1980, it probably passed through a whole bunch of op-amps, too. The power amps used for monitoring in the studio would likely have used PCBs as well, so if PCBs were to have some sort of characteristic "sound" (and I really struggle to come up with any explanation that doesn't involve psychology), then the recording engineers would certainly have heard (and compensated for) this effect.
If you limit yourself to music that hasn't passed through a PCB, then I wouldn't listen to anything recorded after the late 1960s.
Now if someone can come up with a less subjective explanation for exactly what "flat, one-dimensional sound" actually means, that would certainly aid in discussion.
I have tried solid core twisted pairs for headphones cables.
They were used indoors and not moved much.
However, they failed after sometime of use.
Either at the solder points or at some other random point.
Regarding the silver plating, what is the purpose?
Is it for corrosion protection or to alter conductivity?
Maybe both?
For internal wiring I have used solid copper core twisted pairs (taken from FTP cables).
These are usually bare copper. I wonder if I should use some silver plated ones.
They were used indoors and not moved much.
However, they failed after sometime of use.
Either at the solder points or at some other random point.
Regarding the silver plating, what is the purpose?
Is it for corrosion protection or to alter conductivity?
Maybe both?
For internal wiring I have used solid copper core twisted pairs (taken from FTP cables).
These are usually bare copper. I wonder if I should use some silver plated ones.
The original reason was because in order to apply the PTFE (or a similar fluoropolymer) insulation required high temperatures that would cause the copper to corrode immediately. Silver coating protects the copper wire during manufacturing. The happy consequence is that this protection remains for the long term. Silver corrodes too, by tarnishing on the surface with silver sulfide, but that effect is not as deleterious as copper corrosion. Furthermore, silver sulfide is somewhat conductive.
Some people point to the improved conductivity of silver versus copper. The conductivity of silver is only about seven percent higher than that of copper, and the coating usually only comprises a small percentage of the conductive cross section.
Some will point to the skin effect, which is where the current density concentrates at the surface of a conductor at high frequencies due to magnetic field interactions within the wire. At 20KHz, the skin depth in copper is roughly 0.5mm; at 20 Hz it’s about 15mm. In most wires, skin depth at audio frequencies exceeds the diameter of the wire, meaning there is almost no skin effect. In radio frequency applications, the seven percent conductivity improvement of silver can be useful when much of the current density at radio frequencies is within the silver plating of a conductor. Of course RF people appreciate the corrosion protection of silver plating too. At audio frequencies, except for certain extreme conditions, the skin effect is mostly negligible. Anyway, multi-stranded wire behaves much like a solid conductor as far as skin depth is concerned. This is why Litz wire, with its separately insulated strands, was developed.
As to the “sound” of silver-plated wire, you will find hundreds of opinions on this topic on this forum. Just do a search. Many say that silver plating adds a brightness that is unnatural sounding. But it matters how the wire is used: Series vs. shunt, high impedance circuit vs. low impedance, power supply wiring vs. phono stage wiring vs. speaker cables? It’s hard to any defend blanket statements.
Silver plated is a better conductor used for Mil-Spec work. The skin of the wire if the gauge is small enough will have a bigger surface than the wire. Although higher freqs take advantage of the skin or outer surface silver plated conduction is a better choice for audio or critical voltage. In an amplifier you amplify everything. I used 20ga mil-spec to rewire my Dynaco ST70 from the ground up. I only had one break. But it was my fault. Yes, Teflon is a better insulator because of its dielectric absorption number.
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