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Old 11th April 2004, 03:53 PM   #1
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Default DIY Music from DIY Live Audio Gear

Hello all,

I'm looking for music scoresheets and live vedeo footage (does not need be original labelled stuff) for my concerts. Why? Because we study a lot of live vedeos before doing covers of any artist/band. Some of the artists/band vedeos I'm looking for are Dream theater, Vinnie Moore, Louis Armstrong, Platters, Al Jolson, Charles Brown and Aretha Franklin besides the Temptations.
We can do this on a barter - that is I give you a part of my collection in exchange for what you have which I don't.

Interested let me know!!

Patrick
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Old 12th April 2004, 06:55 AM   #2
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Default Recording probs at a live show

Recently, a hard drive recording I performed for my first live gig nearly ended in catastrophe. This was in Dibrugarh, Assam. At approx 80 and 170Hz, the indoor stadium where I performed seems to be resonating at the same pitch as my voice. I did not see peaks at the two freqs before the show when I performed a sweep. The amplitude was such that it drowned the other instruments almost entirely. I cut the two freqs by 5 to 10 db after performing a sweep of the stadium again at interval much to the discomfort of the audience. I'm not sure if this is the right way of going about it. I do not have access to a Sabine ADF4000 yet so I had to make do with EDF5 and Nempee. My setup is rather simple. I use an Aardvark Direct Pro Q10, for my live recordings with Cakewalk Home Studio Pro and a Mackie DFX12 as a submix for the acoustic drum mics. If I use the Alesis DM5 Drum Module with my Ddrum Redshot drum trigs, then I do not use the Mackie at all as I would connect the DM5 directly to my Q10. My Digital Piano parts had the same effect at the above freqs, but the effect was not as pronounced as the vocals, owing to the mix. My drummer would complain about drum parts not being heard when my voice touches the above freqs during the show. He has refused to perform at the next live gig owing to my "crappy sound" at the above mentioned event so that leaves me all alone now and I have to rely more on live tracks that I have recorded at home in my next gig.

My question is that, could this be the result of standing waves in the stadium (which resembles a cubical) or the effect of the presence of the audience before the show and after on the venue freq response. Is this phenomenon a normal thing in performing indoors or does it also exist in free field? If freq response changes wildly like this pre and mid performance, how could a high sound quality be achieved in that freq response remains consistent throughout my performance, regardless of the presence or absence of audience. Could investing in a Sabine POwer Q ADF4000 solve this problem permanently as it seems this device has a Realtime Freq analyser?

My band consists of just me and the drummer with pre-recorded sequenced tracks. I only play live keyboard,piano,strings and guitar lead in parts using guitar simulated voice on keyboards.

Please help before my drummer runs away for good. DIY Electronic amateur musician in distress.

Pats
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Old 12th April 2004, 07:35 AM   #3
sangram is offline sangram  India
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OK there are pros that can help you at www.prosoundweb.com look for the LAB (Live Audio Board).

I have no clue on stadium sound. A small room, yes, a studio, yes, I have absolutely no knowledge of concert venues and sound absorbtion etc.
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Old 12th April 2004, 08:55 AM   #4
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Yes, large venues will have resonant frequencies, and yes, the sound will change as soon as you let the punters in. Temperature and humidity will also change the response of a system over time as well.

As well as doing a sweep test, you should also listen to a few cds that you know well, as well as a voice test with the mic plugged directly into the desk.

If you are using a pc for the hard drive recording, then it should be easy enough to run a RTA pugin with your sound recording software, use a mic set up FOH, then you can also use it for recording audience ambience, ( and hopefully lots of applause as well). Altering settings real time is a difficult thing when playing at the same time, you really need the desk out front with the audience and someone minding it to make any needed adjustments. Do you have a mate you could train up as a sound engineer?
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Old 12th April 2004, 12:21 PM   #5
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Default About free fields and venue resonances in LIve sound.

Sangram, Yes thanks a ton, I am doing that as I type this post lest my drummer forsakes me for good.

Pinkmouse, thanx for the tips. I have another question.

Quote:
Yes, large venues will have resonant frequencies, and yes, the sound will change as soon as you let the punters in. by pinkmouse
What about free fields, will audience affect free field freq response too? Can the Sabine ADF4000 or simliar hardware eliminate this problem indoor or outdoor. What other cheaper alternative equipment can I use that can do the same work? Peavey had the Autograph in the early 90s which worked like the Sabine and costs less. Are such things still around?

Pink I don't think I will find a decent sound guy to train at the moment. Where I live is full of half baked sound clowns who would'nt know the difference between a mix console and a graphic EQ. Yes, its that bad. So I am compelled to look at alternatives. Besides at this point in time I cannot afford a sound man - am cutting overheads like anything.
Am dreaming about procuring an automated Soundman like the Uptown Automation System 2000 when I'm a bit richer, but before that I'll have to make do with what I already have.If its too difficult to come by that Killer sound that I've been looking out for, without a real time auto EQ, like the Sabine gear I have been talking about, then I have no other option but to procure it, even if that means selling my new car Pink I hope you can still share with me, cheaper alternatives to solving this dilemma. Also let me know where I can procure such hardware.

Pat
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Old 12th April 2004, 12:57 PM   #6
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To be honest, I have never used the gear you mention, so I can't really pass an opinion. As an experienced live sound engineer, I have always relied on my ears, and used graphic or parametric eq to sort problem frequencies, depending on the problem.

I can suggest two things though, one practical, one psychological:
Practically, you could just turn yourself down in the mix a little;
Psychological, you could give the drummer a monitor mix and his own speaker, so all he hears is his drumming!

As for your questions about free fields, I assume you mean an outside concert. In this case, you should have far less problems with the sound changing over time, you only really need to worry about enviromental changes at big gigs with multi Kilowatt sound systems systems and thousands of punters.

Sorry that I can't really recommend a quick or cheap fix, perhaps someone else on the forum more familiar with smaller gigs might be able to help, or try the other site that Sangram suggested.
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Old 12th April 2004, 02:31 PM   #7
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Default PC Multitasking and latency probs

Thanx fer the Info there pink, I guess I'll take your second tip and try it out with the drummer. It may not solve my probs but at least it could mask the bad sound from his ears.

Considering your rich experience in sound... I have another question about this idea of having just a single PC do everything . What I mean is that if my PC is recording using my Aardvark Q10 can I have the Guitar EFX software (lets say in use by a guitarist I may hire) running concurrently with the Q10 recording on lets say a different soundcard on a seperate PCI slot in my PC. will this affect the recording? Will I have soundcard latency probs? I haven't tried this before and am scared because the last time I ran an additional EFX software on my Live sound PC, it hanged and crashed all the time. That PC is the present 2Ghz P4,256DDRAM,40GB HDD,500Mhz FSB and has an onboard AC97 soundmodule. I didn't expect the PC to crash even as the Q10 was run seperate and snapped into a PCI slot of this PC. I had to reinstall all my apps and that was very time consuming. I dread making the same mistake again. Would you suggest more processor or RAM speed, or dual processors, or a higher FSB freq? MOst imp of all, have you tried this on your comp?
Its just simply multitasking the PC. Is it advisable to multitask a Hard drive recording PC while its recording with additional sound processing programs, even if the processing is performed without robbing main CPU power, such as additional sound cards with their own processing power???

I Am very curious about this.

Pat
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Old 13th April 2004, 06:55 AM   #8
sangram is offline sangram  India
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You desperately need more RAM. I moved from 256 to 512 ages ago, and now run 1GB which I would consider the bare minimum for a guy running pro software. 256 is fine for web surfing, music and watching DVDs. For pro audio 512 is kind of barebones, for a/v work nothing below 1GB, 2 GB if you can afford it...

And more diskspace. 40GB?? I eat 5 GB in an hour's work with reason, Audition and three guitar tracks@24/96.

The other thing is you have very little memory, so the system will keep hitting the swapfiles on the disk. And you don't have that much disk either.

If you are multitracking while recording it can be done with the PC that you have. You have to use some tricks to do it, and try not to apply real-time effects.
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