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Miniature electrolytic capacitors shootout - Best for Coupling to Headphones?
Miniature electrolytic capacitors shootout - Best for Coupling to Headphones?
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Old 13th March 2018, 02:40 PM   #31
stellarelephant is offline stellarelephant  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anti View Post
Are you going to do only the top-flight cap test in your desktop version, or will you do some budget cap test as well?

I would imagine if you're choosing the components for yourself then you'd be only evaluating the best-of-the best; but if you're doing this for fun as well ...
Yeah, after this experience, my next comparison will only include the best. Most likely will be KZ, ES, FR, FC, Silmic, and hopefully one of the new Audio Note types.
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Old 13th March 2018, 02:47 PM   #32
jameshillj is offline jameshillj  Australia
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I have the impression that the caps you're testing for a signal o/p on a headamp are more suitable for power supply applications, Stella, but I might be way off the mark with this

For me, the 'best' treble sounding electro for the o/p on a headamp would be the old Rifa peh169, renowned as the 'fastest' electro caps ever made

For the 'best' midrange, the prize would have to go to Denis Morecroft's 'Slit Foils' caps, now available from Supertec

For the 'best' bass, it's a bit of a crapshoot between the thick foil Siemens/Epcos B41550 and the Nichicon SuperThru - neither in production for some time but there's modern equivalents, maybe some of the Mundorfs?

Nearly all of the modern cap manufacturers are building smaller sized devices and this will naturally change the way they sound, so my selections are probably well out of date, plus there's plenty of other well-known caps that I have little knowledge of

And, yes, these new caps from AudioNote look very interesing

So, not taking anything away from your good work in testing and defining the differences in the caps you have used, which I find extremely useful and informative indeed, and hoping you have a chance to continue with a wider selection of caps
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Old 13th March 2018, 03:25 PM   #33
nicoch58 is offline nicoch58  Europe
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james is quite expert ....
for what I know the bipolar green nichicon ES is very low distortion from Bateman work
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Old 13th March 2018, 03:52 PM   #34
irribeo is offline irribeo  Netherlands
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You can buy them almost everywhere
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File Type: jpg KZ.jpg (34.6 KB, 253 views)
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Old 13th March 2018, 03:56 PM   #35
BabyDontHertzMe is offline BabyDontHertzMe  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshillj View Post
IFor me, the 'best' treble sounding electro for the o/p on a headamp would be the old Rifa peh169, renowned as the 'fastest' electro caps ever made

For the 'best' midrange, the prize would have to go to Denis Morecroft's 'Slit Foils' caps, now available from Supertec

For the 'best' bass, it's a bit of a crapshoot between the thick foil Siemens/Epcos B41550 and the Nichicon SuperThru - neither in production for some time but there's modern equivalents, maybe some of the Mundorfs?
PEH169, B41550 and Super Through are all available from Mouser .

Super Through refers to the KG series with a voltage of 50+, lower voltage ones are called Gold Tune.

They're all pretty huge though. Definitely going to need that desktop board...
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Old 13th March 2018, 04:10 PM   #36
analog_sa is online now analog_sa  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshillj View Post
For me, the 'best' treble sounding electro for the o/p on a headamp would be the old Rifa peh169, renowned as the 'fastest' electro caps ever made

For the 'best' midrange, the prize would have to go to Denis Morecroft's 'Slit Foils' caps, now available from Supertec

With you here, only both imho have insufficient bass with the Rifa pulling towards brightness.

Admittedly my impressions from both are from PS duties. The Rifa i have in various voltage ratings and all sound disturbingly different. Some are much better balanced than others. Very, very annoying.
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Old 13th March 2018, 04:53 PM   #37
asuslover is offline asuslover  Romania
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Miniature electrolytic capacitors shootout - Best for Coupling to Headphones?
I think you went to far , this was suppose to be a Coupling capacitor for Headphones amplifier, the slimmest peh169 is twice thicker than nichicon kz 1000uf/50v or SILMIC II 1000/50v (not small caps either) ....And the cost, 7-8 times more...
I think that Kz/es/fg and SILMIC II are, for the money and size THE top contenders here .
And these caps are available and affordable , that's great! We don't have to wait for a shortage or for them to be discontinued products to realize how good they are...

Last edited by asuslover; 13th March 2018 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 13th March 2018, 08:35 PM   #38
stellarelephant is offline stellarelephant  United States
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I probably created a misleading title to this thread topic. Technically it should have been "Miniature electrolytic capacitors shootout."

I'm happy to know about these other recommended caps, including the huge snap-in and even screw terminal types, though of course there is no way I could have fit either in a pocket amp. Maybe I will try some of the really big guys in the desktop build. Now I am very curious.

It would be interesting to know, for instance, how Nichicon's monstrous KG, which is also manufactured "for audio," compares to their "high end" miniature KZ. I get the idea that KG are more intended for power supply than signal coupling.

Last edited by stellarelephant; 13th March 2018 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 15th March 2018, 02:56 PM   #39
anti is offline anti  Slovakia
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Panny FR 1500uf/35V also comes in additional stubby 16x20mm package, if you're up to some experimentation. If you have chance, maybe you could also look into Nichi HE series.
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Old 15th March 2018, 03:21 PM   #40
Mark Johnson is offline Mark Johnson  United States
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Miniature electrolytic capacitors shootout - Best for Coupling to Headphones?
If you are interested to try the "perfectly linear electrolytic capacitor" rule of thumb found in Douglas Self's book Small Signal Audio Design (2nd edition), Figure 2.21,

then I recommend you extract the required "AC current delivered into headphones" from the handy table in this web page. When I quickly scan the table, I observe that AC current delivered into headphones is 50mA or less, for about 95% of the headphones listed.

Armed with the necessary numerical values, we simply plug and chug in Self's rule of thumb. AC voltage = 0.08 , AC current = 0.05, frequency = 62 radians/second. And presto, out pops the answer: C >= ten millifarads. (ten thousand microfarads).

Here's a capacitor that sells for $1.44, qty=1, and meets these requirements: link . Remember that Self's data says ANY electrolytic capacitor, from ANY manufacturer, will be perfectly linear when delivering 50mA to a load* ... as long as that electrolytic capacitor is 10,000 microfarads or greater. Even the $1.44 capacitor shown here.

*at frequencies of 62 rad/sec and higher

Last edited by Mark Johnson; 15th March 2018 at 03:33 PM. Reason: footnote
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