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Old 27th November 2004, 05:56 PM   #21
gmarsh is offline gmarsh  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by ingvar ahlberg
Precision in chipresistors is good but it is still lousy resistors, You can find metalfilm resistors in melfpackages but nothing close to the quality of even the most comon through hole metal film resitors. SMD/SMT is all about producing high volume cheaply.
SMD semiconductors are as good as throug hole types, but filmcapacitors, for instance, are rotten and seldom survive soldering. Drill holes, if You´re not into making cellular phones
so what makes a resistor "lousy" and a capacitor "rotten"?... reliability? unexplainable sonic differences?

SMD/SMT is all about:

- making products smaller - try making a handheld MP3 player using 40 pin DIPs

- improving the electrical performance of things. Lead inductance on a SMT IC package can be an order of magnitude better than that on an equivalent SMT package, and the lead inductance of the capacitor you decouple with it is going to be far less too. This is never a bad thing. And of course, any resistor/capacitor/transistor/etc in SMT form will have less series inductance.

- since a board made with SMT components can be made considerably smaller than one made with through-hole components, track lengths tend to be a lot shorter, radiate less EMI, pick up less crap, etc.

- Try designing a high frequency, high-performance, broadcast-quality PLL using through-hole resistors and capacitors. I dare you.

- reducing waste. When you buy SMT resistors, you don't cut the ends off them and throw them out. Much less solder is required to attach them to a board.

And reliability isn't an issue, provided that proper procedures are taken when SMT assembly is done. Mind you, SMT films and large (eg, 2512) SMT ceramics tend to thermal shock and crack way too easily during reflow. And hand-soldering can destroy a SMT capacitor in no time... so I agree with the "can't survive soldering" comment you made.
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Old 27th November 2004, 06:35 PM   #22
djQUAN is offline djQUAN  Philippines
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Quote:
- making products smaller - try making a handheld MP3 player using 40 pin DIPs
with SMT, I was able to make an electret mic buffer fit inside a 3" long 10mm dia aluminum tube. I don't think I could have done that with throughhole components. and the SQ is still good. very quiet too.
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Old 27th November 2004, 07:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Surface mount capacitors

Quote:
Originally posted by chris ma
I have tried surface mount polar caps and my experience with them was not very good. The flimsy little flaps are too fragile and broke off very easily. And they are really too small for hand soldering.

Please tell us what you experience with them. What is the best way to solder them?
They are pretty easy to solder by hand.

1 Wet the cap's connections with fresh tin.

2 Put fresh tin on one pad.

3 Warm this pad and slide the capacitor into it's place.

4 Warm the other pad and maybe add some more tin and burn good for a while because you have a very little connection which can be reached by the soldering iron.

Pretty easy!
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Old 27th November 2004, 07:46 PM   #24
gmarsh is offline gmarsh  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by djQUAN


with SMT, I was able to make an electret mic buffer fit inside a 3" long 10mm dia aluminum tube. I don't think I could have done that with throughhole components. and the SQ is still good. very quiet too.
Since we're talking small... attached is one of the latest things I've designed - a 60W complimentary feedback BJT amplifier, built primarily using 0603 SMT parts on a 1.5" by 3.25" PCB.
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Old 27th November 2004, 08:48 PM   #25
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Looks very good! Care for to show us more? (in case of yes, please start a new thread)

I'm also into surface mounted as you may have noticed. I persnally realy like it but mostly for it's coolness, maybe also for it's good properties.... them somebody amy ask: how does it sound compared to holemounted parts? I don't know.... because I don't. The only thing I know is that I like it.
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Old 28th November 2004, 03:29 AM   #26
djQUAN is offline djQUAN  Philippines
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmarsh

Since we're talking small... attached is one of the latest things I've designed - a 60W complimentary feedback BJT amplifier, built primarily using 0603 SMT parts on a 1.5" by 3.25" PCB.


I assume the output stage is not yet installed? if it's onboard, how do you heatsink it?
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Old 28th November 2004, 04:39 AM   #27
jam is offline jam  United States
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Question Sounds like crap, but I like it!

Peranders,

Someone asked me to pass this along to you.................

PerAnders, you mean you have not even looked at the links on your own website? Maybe what you mean by coolness is an hard icy cold sound in your designs from the passive components you use? I can't understand what other coolness you mean. There are even good sounding passive parts without an "Extreme" price. There are even some SMT resistors than sound better than the standard 1% SMTs chosen at random or for lowest cost. That different passive parts sound different has not been controversial for 20 years and is even well known of the forum.

http://home.comcast.net/~wjungieee/w...pacitors_1.pdf

http://home.comcast.net/~wjungieee/w...pacitors_2.pdf

http://www.borbelyaudio.com

In particular:

http://www.borbelyaudio.com/upgrades.asp
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Old 28th November 2004, 06:38 AM   #28
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Every part has impact on the sound but the question is how much. Jam, have you tested many different SMT parts?
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Old 28th November 2004, 01:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmarsh

- Try designing a high frequency, high-performance, broadcast-quality PLL using through-hole resistors and capacitors. I dare you.
working with high speed current-feedback opamps is more of a problem in through-hole versus surface mount --

i would like to see someone compare the film and phenylene sulfide SMT capacitors with their through-hole counterparts.
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Old 28th November 2004, 02:44 PM   #30
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I was recently experimenting with PLL filter in CS8412 and through hole parts sounded actually better than regular SMD resistors and capacitors.

Any links to those film and phenylene sulfide SMT capacitors, as I would be indeed interested in trying something better.
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